PATREON EXCLUSIVE | Firm But Fair (feat. Emma Grede) | The Joe Budden Podcast
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Quick Read
Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Emma Grede started working at 12, delivering newspapers and later selling counterfeit goods, which she credits for her early business and negotiation skills.
- ❖She views free internships and 'dog's work' as crucial access points into industries like fashion, which are now less accessible to young people.
- ❖Grede's first company, built on connecting fashion designers with brands, was sold when she was 30, an experience that taught her about the emotional and transactional aspects of exits.
- ❖She advocates for a negotiation style focused on mutual advantage and honesty, believing that attempting to 'murder' the other side signals a bad future partner.
- ❖Grede challenges traditional mindsets for women in business, urging them to reject perfectionism and societal conditioning that discourages behaviors leading to success.
- ❖She asserts that 'ambition has to find you working,' dismissing manifestation alone and emphasizing concrete plans and action.
- ❖Grede maintains strict boundaries with family and community regarding financial support, referring to it as the 'family tax' with hard limits.
- ❖She views self-doubt and fear as signals for growth, not deterrents, choosing to 'go into it' rather than retreat.
- ❖As Chief Product Officer at SKIMS, Grede was instrumental in building the company from its early stages, viewing it as a 'crazy privilege' to create opportunity.
Insights
1East London Upbringing as a Business Foundation
Emma Grede attributes her fundamental operating manual for life and business acumen to her upbringing in East London, a 'rough' but diverse area. This environment instilled in her resilience, the ability to 'figure out a way to make anything work,' and strong negotiation skills, which she leveraged from an early age, including selling counterfeit goods.
I'm from East London... It's the hood. It's the place that teaches you all the good stuff... it's what gave me like a basic operating manual for life. It's so much a part of who I am and how I conduct myself in business that I don't know that I'd be as successful as I am right now if I didn't come from that place. Early on I used to sell counterfeit goods.
2The Value of 'Dog's Work' and Free Internships
Grede emphasizes that her entry into the fashion industry was through 'rocky' and 'miserable' jobs, including building fashion show sets and doing free internships. She views these experiences, where she 'swept the floor, made the phone call, delivered the job,' as invaluable access points that allowed her to learn the industry, build relationships, and develop an 'anything is beneath me' work ethic.
I spent, I don't know, years doing free internships and that's what gave me a leg into fashion... you could just go into any office and work for free... you learned so much. I did everything. Nothing was beneath me.
3Navigating Company Exits and the 'Founder's Dilemma'
Grede candidly shares her experience of selling her first company and being 'left out of the transaction,' which was initially painful but ultimately a 'gift.' She highlights a common misunderstanding within the community, particularly for Black founders, where selling a company is often criticized. Grede asserts that the point of a business is to make a profit and exit, and founders should not be punished for achieving that goal, emphasizing the need for honesty about the process.
I sold it when I was 30... I wasn't wanted... they bought the company and didn't take me... it was very embarrassing... I think that's massively also misunderstood by our community. You see how specifically black founders get murdered when they sell their company... The point of a business is to make profit and if you're lucky enough you sell it and that is the goal.
4Challenging Cultural Conditioning for Women in Business
Grede argues that women are 'culturally conditioned to avoid the exact behaviors that lead to success,' such as taking risks, failing, and acting before being perfectly ready. She contrasts this with men's freedom to make mistakes and move on. Her book, 'Start with Yourself,' aims to replace these old thoughts with new ones, promoting a mindset that embraces imperfection and continuous action over 'mindset manifestation' alone.
For women, we're culturally conditioned to avoid the exact behaviors that lead to success... it's really difficult for a lot of women to get started before they feel like everything's lined up. Well, that flies in the face of what actually works in business because business is about you failing on the way up... I don't want women to sit around and do a vision board. I want you to make a plan for your life.
5Intentional Philanthropy and Creating Opportunities
Grede is intentional about using her power and influence, beyond just money, for philanthropic efforts. She sits on boards and focuses on 'creating the conditions' for a 'million little Emmas' – people from similar backgrounds who lack formal business education or access to capital. She emphasizes that 'talent is fairly evenly distributed, opportunity isn't,' and her goal is to provide that opportunity through education and access.
I'm extremely philanthropic. And for me, when you have a lot of money, it's easy to give money. But actually, what is useful, what is impactful is my time, is my connections, the stuff that I can make happen... how can I make a million little Emma's... talent is fairly evenly distributed. Opportunity isn't.
Bottom Line
The 'family tax' is a real and necessary aspect of success when coming from a disadvantaged background, requiring firm boundaries and limits to manage financial expectations from family and community.
Entrepreneurs from humble beginnings must proactively define and enforce financial boundaries to protect their resources and personal well-being, acknowledging that not everyone will understand or respect these limits.
Develop resources or mentorship programs specifically addressing how successful individuals can navigate financial requests from family and community without sacrificing their own stability or mission.
The glorification of entrepreneurship on social media often omits the relentless hard work, constant problem-solving, and personal sacrifices required, creating an unrealistic portrayal of success.
This creates a misleading narrative, particularly for women, that discourages genuine effort by presenting an unattainable image of ease and perfection.
Build platforms or content that authentically showcase the day-to-day challenges, failures, and trade-offs of entrepreneurship, providing more realistic and actionable guidance for aspiring founders.
Opportunities
Influencer Ad Sales Aggregator
A platform that bundles multiple social media influencers/bloggers to sell aggregated ad space to brands. This allows smaller influencers to gain access to larger ad budgets and brands to streamline campaigns across diverse creators.
Fashion Brand-Designer Partnership Agency
An agency specializing in connecting emerging fashion designers with established brands for collaborations, sponsorships, and funding for fashion shows, taking a commission on successful partnerships.
Key Concepts
The 'Firm But Fair' Leadership
Emma Grede describes her leadership style as having very high standards for her team, but also holding herself to those same standards. This approach fosters excellence and ensures that feedback, including difficult conversations like firing, is direct, honest, and rarely a surprise, as expectations are clear.
Mutual Advantage Negotiation
Grede's negotiation philosophy centers on finding 'mutually advantageous ground' where both parties leave feeling like they won. This approach prioritizes honesty about needs and avoids over-extending demands, preserving credibility and fostering healthier long-term relationships, as a bad negotiating partner signals a difficult future relationship.
Fear as a Signal
Instead of viewing fear or self-doubt as a reason to stop, Grede treats it as a signal that 'there's something on the other side of this feeling that is going to propel me forward.' This mental model encourages leaning into discomfort and challenges as opportunities for growth and improvement.
Lessons
- Cultivate resilience by viewing setbacks and rejections as temporary, continuously pushing forward until something 'sticks' rather than giving up.
- Adopt a 'firm but fair' leadership approach by setting high standards for your team and yourself, ensuring direct, honest, and timely feedback to foster excellence and accountability.
- Reframe negotiation as a collaborative process to find 'mutually advantageous ground,' clearly stating your needs and reasons without over-extending, to build trust and lasting partnerships.
- Challenge societal conditioning, especially for women, by rejecting perfectionism and embracing action even when not fully ready, understanding that business growth involves continuous testing and learning.
- Be intentional about your life vision and values, designing what is right for you rather than seeking external validation or comparing yourself to others' paths.
- Treat self-doubt and fear as signals for growth, not reasons to retreat; lean into these feelings as indicators of opportunities for personal and professional advancement.
Emma Grede's Negotiation Strategy
Identify your true 'must-haves': Clearly define what you genuinely need to get the deal done, avoiding unnecessary demands.
Communicate honestly and with credibility: State your needs and the reasons behind them directly, building trust with the other party.
Seek mutual advantage: Aim for an outcome where both sides feel they've won, ensuring respect and a healthy foundation for the ongoing relationship.
Observe signals: Pay attention to how the other party negotiates; a desire to take advantage early on indicates a potentially difficult long-term partner.
Prioritize long-term relationships: Understand that preserving respect and a positive dynamic is more valuable than 'murdering' the other side in a single deal.
Notable Moments
Emma Grede's unexpected 'tough' demeanor before the recording, contrasting with her elegant public persona, surprised the hosts and revealed her 'firm but fair' nature.
This moment highlighted Grede's authentic, no-nonsense approach to business and life, demonstrating that her public image doesn't fully capture her direct and demanding personality, which she attributes to her East London roots.
Grede's anecdote about a former 'boy' from East London texting her, asking 'Why don't you come check for me?' after seeing her post about visiting her old neighborhood.
This moment underscored the difficult and often painful trade-offs of success, particularly the necessary distance from one's origins and the realization that not everyone moves forward at the same pace, revealing the emotional weight of 'separation' from one's past.
Quotes
"I don't know that I'd be as successful as I am right now if I didn't come from that place."
"My whole thing was like just be excellent. Like whatever you're doing, you're going to be the best at that thing in that moment."
"I will take your ignorance and I'll take your money at the same time."
"The point of a business is to make profit and if you're lucky enough you sell it and that is the goal. We shouldn't be punishing people when they do the very thing that we've come to do."
"You can have everything but not all at the same time."
"When I feel a pang of like fear, I've learned to treat it as like a signal. Like to me, I'm like, there's something on the other side of this feeling that is going to propel me forward."
Q&A
Recent Questions
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