SPIDER-NOIR 1x5, 1x6, 1 x7 & 1x8 Reaction! | In Color & Black & White! | Marvel w/ Jaby Koay
YouTube · Y3W5zzl9qU8
Quick Read
Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Spider-Man's origin is a horrific WWII experiment involving a 'man-spider' bite, not a radioactive spider.
- ❖Dr. Faber, a geneticist, is attempting to cure super-soldiers but her treatments accelerate their mutations, causing decay and death.
- ❖Cat repeatedly betrays Ben Riley, first for Flint Marco, then for Dr. Faber, leading to Ben's capture and forced experimentation.
- ❖Ben Riley is drugged and experimented on by Dr. Faber, who extracts a 'cure' from his unique, stable mutation to save her son.
- ❖Faber's son, cured and made young again, dies shortly after, caught in the crossfire of Silverman's attack.
- ❖Ben Riley obtains the antidote, but is convinced by Robbie Robertson to use it to help Lonnie and Flint, rather than for himself.
- ❖The show explicitly addresses the racism prevalent in the 1930s/40s setting, particularly through the experiences of black characters like Robbie Robertson.
Insights
1Twisted Origin of Spider-Man Noir
Ben Riley's Spider-Man powers stem from being bitten by a 'man-spider' during a WWII German experiment designed to create super-soldiers. This horrifying origin contrasts sharply with the classic radioactive spider bite, grounding his abilities in a more grotesque, experimental context.
Ben Riley's flashback to the war shows him being bitten by a creature that was once a man, transformed by experimentation. The hosts react with shock to this revelation, noting its 'wild' and 'horrific' nature. []
2Dr. Faber's Desperate 'Cure' and Tragic Outcome
Dr. Althia Faber, a top geneticist, has been running a study on WWII POWs with superhuman powers, seeking a cure for their decaying genetic material. Her treatments, however, accelerate their latent mutations, causing them to worsen and die. Her motivation is deeply personal: to save her own son, Ogden, who is also afflicted.
It's revealed Faber's work 'managed to do is activate latent mutations and accelerate them' []. She later confesses to Ben that she lost her son and is trying to bring him back, revealing Ogden is her son. []
3Ben Riley's Internal Conflict and Betrayals
Ben Riley, as Spider-Man, is deeply conflicted about his powers, viewing them as a curse and desiring to return to a normal life after the death of Ruby. He is repeatedly betrayed by Cat, who prioritizes saving Flint Marco and later helps Dr. Faber capture Ben for his unique, stable mutation. This highlights the noir theme of moral ambiguity and personal sacrifice.
Ben states he wants to 'go back to being just Ben Riley' []. Cat betrays Ben to Flint, then later to Dr. Faber, who drugs and experiments on him. [], []
4The Antidote and a Hero's Choice
Dr. Faber successfully extracts an antidote from Ben Riley's stable genetic material, curing her son Ogden. However, Ogden dies shortly after, caught in the crossfire of a gang attack. Ben, now possessing the antidote, is convinced by Robbie Robertson to use it to save Lonnie Lincoln and Flint Marco, choosing selflessness over his desire to be free of his powers.
Faber cures Ogden, making him young again []. Ogden dies in the lab attack []. Robbie persuades Ben to use the antidote for Lonnie and Flint, appealing to his sense of responsibility. []
5Nicholas Cage's Performance Elevates Spider-Man Noir
The hosts consistently highlight Nicholas Cage's portrayal as a key strength, appreciating his 'ziness,' comedic timing, and ability to bring a 'drunk and messy' yet compelling version of Spider-Man to life. This unique take diverges significantly from previous Spider-Man iterations, offering a refreshing character arc.
The host states, 'I really enjoy just the ziness of Nick Cage in this role. Like, he he really tickles me and I I love that they're kind of leaning into the comedy of this for him.' and 'My favorite thing about this is Nick Cage.'
6Critique of Action Sequences and CGI Quality
Despite the show's overall enjoyment, the action scenes and CGI, particularly the spiderwebs, are criticized for not meeting expectations. The hosts feel the action is 'just okay' and lacks the impactful choreography seen in other noir-inspired superhero films like 'The Batman,' suggesting budget constraints or artistic choices that didn't fully land.
One host notes, 'the action in the show is not to where I would like it to be... when the action is there, it needs to hit.' Another adds, 'I cannot help but notice the CGI spiderweb. Like, it looks like animation.'
7Preference for Black and White Aesthetic Over Color
The hosts discuss the show's dual aesthetic (black and white vs. color), with a strong preference for the black and white version. They argue that the monochromatic palette enhances the noir atmosphere, emphasizing light and shadow, while the color version, though vibrant, can be 'too saturated' and distracting, diluting the cinematic focus.
The host states, 'I prefer the the black and white aesthetic of it. I feel like it really leans into the whole noir aspect of spider noir.' and 'in color your your eyes kind of distracted by all of the beauty all around.'
8Spider-Man Noir's Unique Origin and Dr. Faber's Role
The series presents a distinct origin story for Spider-Man Noir: he was bitten by a 'man-spider' during German experiments in a WWII POW camp. This revelation ties into the broader plot where Dr. Faber, initially thought to be developing a cure for other superpowered veterans, is actually accelerating their mutations, causing them to decay and die.
The hosts react to the scene: 'Oh, that's the radioactive spider he got bitten by.' and later, 'Faber's been looking for a cure. But all she's managed to do is activate latent mutations and accelerate them.'
9Cat's Betrayal and Shifting Loyalties
Cat's character is portrayed with complex and often contradictory loyalties. She betrays Ben Riley (Spider-Man) to save Flint, despite having expressed affection for Ben and planning a future with him. This 'messy' behavior highlights the morally ambiguous nature typical of the noir genre.
One host exclaims, 'Cat here is just like all over the place. Such a such a messy girl. First, oh my gosh, I love Flint. And then, woo, woo woo, Ben Riley, I love you, Ben Riley. And then now she's all like, wait, hold on. I can save my original Boo. Let me just throw new Boo under the bus.'
10The Tragic Cost of Desperate Science
Dr. Faber's relentless pursuit of a cure for her rapidly aging son, Ogden, leads her to kidnap and experiment on Ben Riley. While successful in reversing Ogden's aging, he tragically dies shortly after, highlighting the unforeseen consequences of her actions and the moral ambiguity of her scientific methods.
Ogden is cured but dies protecting his mother; the hosts discuss the moral implications of Faber's non-consensual operations.
11Deconstructing Spider-Man's Heroic Identity
Ben Riley is portrayed as a deeply disillusioned and alcoholic Spider-Man, haunted by past loss (Ruby) and rejecting his heroic mantle. His inversion of the classic 'with great power comes great responsibility' to 'with no power, there's no responsibility' underscores a narrative that explores a hero's burnout and search for personal meaning beyond public adoration.
Ben states he became Spider-Man 'for the thrill' but it no longer feels good; he declares 'with no power, there's no responsibility.'
12Production Challenges in Balancing Noir Aesthetic and Modern Expectations
The hosts critique the show's action sequences and CGI, particularly the spiderwebs, suggesting budget constraints despite the popular Marvel IP. This points to a challenge in adapting a noir aesthetic, which often relies on atmosphere and dialogue, while still delivering the dynamic action expected by modern superhero audiences.
Hosts comment on the 'trickery' in fight scenes and the noticeable CGI spiderwebs, questioning the budget allocation for a major IP.
13Biological Webbing as a Unique Limitation
The series incorporates the concept of Spider-Man's biological webbing running out and needing replenishment, a detail reminiscent of Toby Maguire's portrayal. This limitation adds a layer of vulnerability and realism to Spider-Man's powers, distinguishing this iteration from others where webbing is often limitless or mechanically supplied.
The hosts discuss how the show addresses the biological nature of Spider-Man's webbing and its potential to run out, a concept previously seen in Toby Maguire's Spider-Man.
14Black and White Enhances Cinematic Drama Over Full Color
While the full-color version of *Spider-Noir* offered vibrant visuals and allowed appreciation for details like character makeup and set design, the black and white presentation was superior for its dramatic interplay of light and shadow. This aligns with cinematic theory where a controlled color palette, or its absence, can more effectively direct audience attention and create mood, preventing the distraction caused by overly saturated, 'popping' colors.
Achara Kirk noted the black and white's unique ability to make light and shadow more noticeable and dramatic ( - ). Jaby Koay referenced a video explaining how too much vibrance distracts, and cinematic quality often involves choosing colors to focus attention ( - ).
15Rushed Pacing Undermined Villain Arc and Action Sequences
The hosts felt the villain, Silver Mane, was killed 'too soon' and his storyline 'pulled its punch.' The climactic mirror scene, while conceptually interesting, felt 'rushed' and 'truncated' compared to its cinematic inspirations like *Enter the Dragon*, diminishing its impact and raising questions about the villain's preparation and the protagonist's resources.
Achara Kirk expressed sadness at Silver Mane's quick demise ( - ). Both hosts agreed the mirror scene felt 'rushed' and 'truncated,' noting the protagonist's gun had too many bullets for mirrors but ran out for the main villain ( - ).
16The Show's Place in Spider-Verse Continuity Raises Questions
The hosts questioned the inconsistency in how characters from live-action universes are portrayed across different Spider-Verse media. Specifically, why Donald Glover appeared live-action in *Across the Spider-Verse*, but Nicolas Cage's Spider-Noir, also from a live-action-adjacent world, is animated when crossing into Miles Morales's universe.
Jaby Koay asked why Nick Cage's character isn't live-action in the Spider-Verse movies if Donald Glover's character was ( - , - ).
Key Concepts
Cinematic Color Theory
The principle that deliberate and controlled use of color, or even its absence, is more effective in directing audience attention, conveying mood, and achieving cinematic depth than simply maximizing vibrancy or saturation. Too much color can lead to visual distraction, making everything interesting and thus nothing interesting.
Narrative Pacing in Adaptations
The concept that the speed at which a story unfolds significantly impacts audience engagement and the perceived depth of character arcs and action sequences. Rushed pacing, especially in climactic moments, can diminish emotional impact and narrative satisfaction, particularly when compared to more deliberate pacing in source material or classic inspirations.
Notable Moments
Jabby and Achara practice social distancing due to Achara's cold, highlighting a relatable, real-world precaution amidst their reaction.
This lighthearted moment at the start grounds the hosts in a real-world context before diving into the fictional narrative, adding a personal touch to their dynamic.
The hosts discuss the difficulty of de-aging Nicholas Cage in the series, noting his movements still appear older despite the visual effects.
This is a meta-commentary on the technical challenges of filmmaking, specifically CGI de-aging, and how it can sometimes break immersion for viewers.
The reveal of Spider-Man's origin as a 'man-spider' bite from a German WWII experiment, shocking the hosts with its grotesque nature.
This is a significant departure from the traditional Spider-Man lore, establishing the dark, unique tone of the Noir universe and surprising even seasoned fans.
Robbie Robertson's moment of triumph at the Daily Bugle, only to be met by a room full of silently judgmental white men, symbolizing the pervasive racism of the era.
This poignant scene effectively conveys the systemic racism faced by black individuals in the 1930s/40s, even in moments of personal achievement, making a powerful social commentary within the narrative.
Ben Riley's dream sequence while under sedation, featuring trippy, surreal visuals of spiders and his deceased love, Ruby, transforming into a spider-like entity.
This moment delves into Ben's subconscious fears and trauma, visually representing his internal struggle with his powers and the loss he has endured, adding psychological depth to his character.
The hosts' humorous and slightly grossed-out discussion about spider anatomy, particularly regarding reproductive organs, after a visual in Ben's dream.
This provides a moment of levity and relatable human reaction to the bizarre visuals of the show, showcasing the hosts' dynamic and adding an unexpected, memorable detail.
The death of Ogden, Dr. Faber's son, shortly after being cured by his mother, caught in the crossfire of Silverman's attack.
This tragic event underscores the futility and harshness of the noir world, where even a hard-won victory (the cure) is immediately undermined by violence and loss, reinforcing the genre's bleak outlook.
Ogden, Dr. Faber's son, is cured of his rapid aging mutation but tragically dies protecting his mother from Silverman's goons.
This highlights the high cost and unforeseen consequences of Faber's desperate scientific endeavors, adding a tragic layer to her motivations.
Silverman deduces Ben Riley's identity as Spider-Man, confirming his suspicion by threatening Janet, forcing Ben to reveal his true nature.
This moment escalates the personal stakes for Ben, as his secret identity is compromised, putting those he cares about in direct danger.
Cat confesses to Ben that she orchestrated events, including hiring Addison and informing the mayor, all to save Flint and kill Ben.
This revelation exposes the depth of Cat's manipulation and her complex, self-serving motivations, adding a significant twist to the narrative.
Electro transforms into a more powerful villain, renaming himself 'Megawatt,' before being defeated and cured by Spider-Man.
This showcases the evolving threats in the series and the ultimate resolution of one of its primary antagonists through the antidote.
Quotes
"He looks like he's leaving Las Vegas, if you know what I'm saying."
"That pie does not actually look very good. I lie. It looks like the last pie of the night."
"He's going to wake up with abs like Toby Magguire."
"A hot dog at the game is better than roast beef at the Ritz."
"You can't touch the sun and then come back down to earth again."
"I really enjoy just the ziness of Nick Cage in this role. Like, he he really tickles me and I I love that they're kind of leaning into the comedy of this for him."
"With no power is it no responsibility. I mean, that's a fact."
"When the action is there, it needs to hit. And I think that's my one of my biggest complaints about the show."
"I cannot help but notice the CGI spiderweb. Like, it looks like animation."
"My one regret is I only get to kill you once."
"I love Flint, but in a different world, I really would have run away with you."
"I prefer the the black and white aesthetic of it. I feel like it really leans into the whole noir aspect of spider noir."
"A hot dog at the game is better than roast beef at the Ritz."
"Faber said there's only one thing left to try. Not what? Who? Spider-Man? He's got the cure."
"I'm still breathing, but my mutation is aging me at a dog's clip."
"Truth is, this is a part of me I wish never existed. I'm leaving town, starting over as Ben Riley."
"You can't blame a man for trying. Yeah, we have enough drugs in you to weaken King Kong."
"Spider was never a hero. I only did it for the thrill."
"What kind of a mother would I be if I didn't exhaust every option? There's always an answer, Mr. Riley."
"I've been preparing to die for so long, I never really thought about how to live."
"My one regret is I only get to kill you once."
"There was something for me that the black and white gave which I thought was really unique which was just like the the interplay between like the light and the shadow."
"What is cinematic is actually an absence of too much color. It's like cinematic is choosing colors to be your palette in order to focus the attention. Because when you have too much and it's just saturated, it's not and nothing is interesting because everything is interesting."
"On the whole, I'm glad the show was made. I thought it was interesting and it was definitely way more than I had initially given it credit for."
"It was also cool just to see Nick Cage do his thing. And it was cool that we actually have, you know, this older superhero character because you don't get that really."
Q&A
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