Y Combinator
Y Combinator
June 25, 2026

Zynga Founder: Consumer Is Not Investible Right Now - Thats Why You Should Build It

YouTube · oHwUD9b9_pg

Quick Read

Zynga founder Mark Pincus argues that while consumer products are currently "uninvestable," the advent of AI agents presents an unprecedented opportunity to build new "internet treasures" and reinvent existing services, despite the current high cost of advanced AI compute.
Leverage the "Proven, Better, New" framework to innovate by copying existing successes, improving known features, and testing novel ideas without ego.
Anticipate a consumer AI revolution around 2029 when compute costs drop, making "always-on" AI services viable for the mass market.
Embrace "Founder Mode" by staying deeply involved in product details and fostering a culture where teams can pivot based on new learnings.

Summary

Mark Pincus, founder of Zynga, discusses the current state of consumer product development, asserting that while investors are shying away, AI and agents are creating the biggest opportunity ever for new "internet treasures." He shares his "Proven, Better, New" framework for product innovation, emphasizing the importance of copying proven elements, improving existing ones, and rigorously testing novel ideas without ego attachment. Pincus reflects on past tech eras, from Napster's peer-to-peer revolution to Facebook's trust-based social networking, and draws parallels to the current AI wave. He highlights the paradox of AI's potential, noting that while 90% of enterprises haven't seen benefits, the frontier models (like Opus 4.5) are enabling "token maxing" and new coding paradigms where LLMs write the code. Pincus predicts a consumer AI revolution around 2029 when compute costs become negligible, making currently expensive "always-on" AI services accessible and free, urging founders to build now with this future in mind. He also touches on "Founder Mode" and the importance of staying connected to product details and maintaining intellectual honesty within a team.
For founders and product leaders, this episode offers a contrarian yet optimistic view on consumer AI, providing a strategic framework ("Proven, Better, New") for innovation in a challenging market. It highlights the critical timing for building foundational AI-powered consumer experiences, anticipating a future where AI compute is free and ubiquitous. The discussion also provides valuable lessons on leadership, product conviction, and navigating the "abyss" of uncertainty, encouraging founders to trust their instincts and foster a culture of intellectual honesty.

Takeaways

  • The current investment climate makes consumer products "uninvestable," yet AI creates an unprecedented opportunity for new "internet treasures."
  • Napster pioneered the "people web" by connecting users directly, laying groundwork for social networking.
  • "Proven, Better, New" is a product development framework: legally copy proven elements, make them objectively better, and rigorously test new, often wrong, ideas.
  • AI's true consumer revolution is projected around 2029 when compute costs become negligible, enabling "always-on" and free intelligent services.
  • Many enterprises are not yet seeing benefits from AI, often due to improper usage like writing code to call LLMs instead of letting LLMs write the code.
  • Founders must cultivate "Founder Mode" by staying present, knowing product details intimately, and creating a culture that allows for frequent, data-driven pivots.
  • The "Abyss" is a natural phase for founders between passionate product pursuits, offering a chance to expand taste zones and find new inspiration.
  • The "business plan of free" (e.g., Freeloader, Zynga) will be transformative again when AI compute becomes ubiquitous and free.

Insights

1AI-Driven Consumer Opportunity Despite Current Uninvestability

Despite consumer products currently being seen as "uninvestable" by many investors, the emergence of AI and agents creates an unprecedented opportunity to build new "internet treasures" and reinvent existing services. The underlying technology enables capabilities previously unimaginable.

Even though consumer is arguably not investable right now, the opportunity has never been greater to offer people a new, you know, internet treasure, reinvent some service that we thought was over or just generic, but it's enabled now because of AI and agents.

2Trust as the Foundation of Social Networks

Early social network attempts like Tribe failed because they didn't prioritize trust. Facebook succeeded by building a "good container of trust" from the beginning, initially with its .edu domain, which allowed users to feel safe putting themselves on the web.

The thing I got wrong with tribe was trust... for people to put themselves on the web, they first had to feel this good container of trust and that's the thing that they got right with.edu from the beginning.

3The "Always-On" AI Agent as a Peer

The latest AI models (like Opus 4.5) are intelligent enough to be treated as a peer, capable of listening in on conversations, providing context-aware insights, and acting as a "smart other person at the table." This capability is not yet widely productized in consumer applications.

I can you sort of treat the agent as a peer... I can trust it with things... it actually is smart enough... I walk around talking to it... I'm just in conversation with it a lot.

4Enterprise AI Adoption Lag and "Token Maxing"

A significant portion (90%) of enterprises investing in AI have yet to see benefits, often due to using older models, being cost-conscious, or failing to adapt their development paradigms. In contrast, frontier users are "token maxing" (spending millions on advanced models) to achieve massive productivity gains (e.g., work of a thousand people).

There was a stat yesterday that I saw something like 90% of enterprises that have like invested in AI haven't received any benefit yet... Peter Steinberger apparently is spending a million or $1.1 million a month. That is like sort of the frontier of what you can do with this stuff. like you can literally do the work of a thousand people.

5New Paradigm for Software Development with LLMs

The old way of coding involved writing extensive code to call LLMs. The new, more efficient paradigm is to write significantly less code by teaching LLMs (via markdown) to write the necessary code directly, leading to more customizable and powerful applications.

I was writing a lot of code that then would call the LLMs... And that's the old way to do it. And the new way to do it is actually have the LMS just write the code you need right now... Write markdown that teaches LLMs to write code.

6Consumer AI Revolution is a Few Years Away Due to Cost Curve

The true consumer AI revolution is still several years off (projected around 2029) because the most magical AI capabilities currently require significant financial investment. As the cost of intelligence (tokens, compute) drops by orders of magnitude, these advanced features will become accessible and free for the mass market.

If the Opus 4.5 moment was just in December, you have to pay, you know, tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to get like real real work done with those things... the ideal consumer moment is still like three orders of magnitude away, but that means that the consumer revolution is actually in 2029.

Bottom Line

The current "abyss" in consumer app innovation (empty phone screens, lack of captivating new apps) is a precursor to a massive AI-driven shift, similar to how the internet's "dark fiber" phase preceded Amazon's rise.

So What?

This period of perceived stagnation is actually a critical window for founders to develop foundational AI-powered consumer primitives.

Impact

Build "internet treasures" now, anticipating a future where AI compute is free and ubiquitous, by focusing on services that would be transformative with unlimited, free intelligence.

The R&D for cutting-edge AI product development currently involves "squandering tokens" on frontier models, a practice inaccessible or too expensive for most, but crucial for discovering new capabilities.

So What?

This creates a temporary competitive advantage for well-funded or independent builders willing to invest heavily in compute, pushing the boundaries of what's possible before costs democratize.

Impact

Founders should embrace high token usage as an R&D expense to explore novel AI applications, understanding that today's expensive experiments will inform tomorrow's free consumer products.

Opportunities

Always-On AI Assistant for Conversations

A consumer-facing AI product that passively listens to conversations (e.g., meetings, therapy sessions, daily interactions) and acts as a "smart other person at the table." It could provide real-time insights, summarize discussions, suggest relevant topics, or recall past context, without explicit prompting. The current technical capability exists but is too expensive for mass market.

Source: Mark Pincus and host discuss their desire for such a product and how they currently hack it together.

Key Concepts

Proven, Better, New

A product development framework where founders should legally copy "proven" elements from successful products, make existing features "better" (e.g., faster, cheaper, less friction), and then isolate and rigorously test "new" ideas, assuming they are likely wrong. The "new" part is what attracts initial interest, but the "proven" and "better" elements drive sustained engagement.

Founder Mode

A leadership philosophy where founders remain deeply present, intimately knowledgeable about their product, and confident in their instincts, even when unpopular. It involves creating a culture that allows for frequent, intellectually honest pivots based on new learnings, rather than being trapped by ego or external pressures.

The Abyss

A period of uncertainty and lack of passion that founders experience between intensely pursuing product ideas. It's described as a time to expand one's "taste zones" and find new inspiration, rather than a period of stagnation.

The Business Plan of Free

The principle that anything that can be offered for free, will be, and this model can disrupt industries (e.g., Freeloader vs. paid screensavers, Zynga vs. paid console games). This concept is expected to re-emerge powerfully with the commoditization of AI compute.

Lessons

  • Apply the "Proven, Better, New" framework: Identify successful products, enhance their core features, and then introduce and rapidly iterate on novel ideas, expecting most "new" features to fail initially.
  • Cultivate "Founder Mode" by staying deeply engaged with your product's details and fostering a team culture of intellectual honesty, allowing for frequent pivots based on new learnings without ego.
  • Prepare for the "free AI" era: Design consumer products assuming AI compute will eventually be unlimited and free, focusing on what becomes possible when intelligence is a commodity, even if current costs are prohibitive.

The "Proven, Better, New" Product Development Cycle

1

Identify the Instinct/Innovation Zone: Start with a clear instinct about what's missing or what problem needs solving.

2

Deconstruct Proven Solutions: Analyze existing successful products (e.g., Granola for AI note-taking) and legally copy all their "proven" mechanics that are not part of your innovation. Do not question or try to improve these; save time.

3

Define "Better" Improvements: Identify aspects where you can make the product objectively "better" for 10 out of 10 existing users (e.g., faster, cheaper, less friction). These are generally safe improvements.

4

Isolate and Test "New" Hypotheses: Clearly define the truly "new" element(s) – your core hypothesis for innovation (e.g., always-on listening AI). Assume these new ideas are probably wrong and design tests to validate or invalidate them quickly.

5

Iterate and Don't Get Attached: Be prepared for "new" features to fail. Don't get emotionally attached to specific product variants; stay passionate about the overarching vision but dispassionate about individual ideas.

Notable Moments

The "Fish Are Running" Metaphor for Product-Market Fit

This vivid metaphor describes the undeniable, exhilarating moment of true product-market fit where everything works, feedback loops are overwhelmingly positive, and the team intrinsically knows they have a hit, motivating intense effort without external pressure. It contrasts sharply with products that are "not quite right" and require constant data analysis and debate.

The "Motor City of the Internet"

Mark Pincus refers to San Francisco as the "Motor City of the Internet," a playful yet profound analogy highlighting its role as the manufacturing hub for digital innovation, similar to Detroit's historical role in automotive production.

Quotes

"

"Even though consumer is arguably not investable right now, the opportunity has never been greater to offer people a new, you know, internet treasure, reinvent some service that we thought was over or just generic, but it's enabled now because of AI and agents."

Mark Pincus
"

"The first thing I'd say is I traced the beginning of social networking to Napster... That's the first time to me that I felt like we looked through the network at each other. We connected to each other. We didn't just connect up to XYZ corporation or database."

Mark Pincus
"

"The thing I got wrong with tribe was trust... for people to put themselves on the web, they first had to feel this good container of trust and that's the thing that they got right with.edu from the beginning."

Mark Pincus
"

"The better part I'd give it [AI] like a B minus because it it was not always getting better like the concept of better, right? And then for new I'd give it a D. Which makes I mean that's what the human's for."

Mark Pincus
"

"The only point of all of these management tools is to get people to do the right thing when we're not in the room. That's it. The first lesson is be in the room."

Mark Pincus
"

"I don't trust the CEO of a consumer company that doesn't love their product and doesn't know their product better than anybody else."

Mark Pincus
"

"Don't write code that calls LLMs. Write markdown that teaches LLMs to write code."

Garry Tan
"

"The ideal consumer moment is still like three orders of magnitude away, but that means that the consumer revolution is actually in 2029."

Garry Tan
"

"I love the business plan of free. If you want to say like what what do you always know is better? Free, right? And it's one of the rules of the internet. Like anything that can be free will be free."

Mark Pincus

Q&A

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