Trump Made a Mess in Iran—And Democrats are Blowing It (w/ Morris Katz) | The Bulwark Podcast
Quick Read
Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Zoran's White House visits were a pragmatic effort to secure benefits for New Yorkers, demonstrating a willingness to engage across ideological divides for tangible results.
- ❖The Democratic party's foreign policy messaging, particularly on Iran, is criticized as incoherent and out of touch with public sentiment, focusing on process over clear opposition to war.
- ❖Left populism can be effective in red states if candidates prioritize economic issues (e.g., anti-corporate, anti-billionaire stance) and are flexible or strategic about cultural issues.
- ❖The 'Kamala conundrum' highlights the difficulty of candidates appealing to both center-left and progressive wings simultaneously without a clear, unifying message.
- ❖Distinguishing anti-Zionism from antisemitism is crucial to prevent right-wing extremists from co-opting legitimate criticism of Israeli policy.
- ❖Candidates like Graham Platner represent a new model for Democrats, uniting voters around a core hypothesis of power and wealth consolidation at the top.
Insights
1Zoran's Pragmatic Engagement with Trump
Zoran's decision to meet with Donald Trump twice was a calculated move to tangibly improve the lives of New Yorkers, focusing on areas of potential agreement like housing and safety, rather than ideological debate. The mayor's team viewed Trump as the President with the power to impact New Yorkers, making engagement a duty.
Katz states, 'Donald Trump is the president of the United States. We don't have control over that at this moment... The president of the United States has an incredible ability to improve or decrease the quality of life for New Yorkers.' Zoran 'relentlessly pivot[ed] back to what can we find in common to address the affordability crisis in New York.' ()
2Democratic Party's Muddled Foreign Policy Messaging
Katz criticizes the Democratic party, particularly figures like Chuck Schumer, for 'incoherence' and a 'blob mentality' in their foreign policy messaging, especially regarding Iran. He argues that focusing on the lack of congressional approval for military action, rather than outright opposing war, is out of touch and politically inept.
Katz describes Schumer's statements as 'what? Like, no. The president's trying ran on delivering an era of peace and affordability. And instead, costs are going up and he's dragging us back into the Middle East. It's a slam dunk political message.' () He also notes Democrats focusing on 'the lack of congressional intervention or approval' for war ().
3The 'Kamala Conundrum' and Candidate Positioning
The 'Kamala conundrum' describes the challenge of candidates like Kamala Harris who struggle to define their core identity, leading to both liberals and progressives viewing them unfavorably. Successful candidates, like Zoran or Telerico, find a 'right positioning' where they are seen as authentic and focused on core issues, even if not perfectly aligned with all ideological wings.
Miller explains, 'people... looked at Kamla and saw California liberal... and the progressive folks... looked at her and saw centrist corporate shill.' () Katz adds, 'no one knew who the she was for. And if she actually had a credible thing that she was for, I think it bounces off of you differently.' ()
4Left Populism in Red States: Economic Focus vs. Cultural Issues
While left populism focused on economic issues (e.g., billionaires, corporate power) can resonate broadly, its effectiveness in red states is questioned when paired with 'down the line' progressive social values. Katz agrees that economic populism is a 'starter kit' for viability, but other issues should be flexible and localized to meet voters where they are, avoiding 'losing issues' and 'coastal' rhetoric.
Miller asks if 'left-wing populism works in red America if you also are down the line part of the cultural left elite.' () Katz responds, 'I agree with you and I think like I get like straw manned in this sometimes... it's just the starting place for viability and everything else should be flexible off of the specific place you're running.' ()
5Wealth Inequality as a Unifying Political Message
Despite political polarization, the idea of taxing the wealthy to benefit everyone else remains a universally resonant message. Both Miller and Katz agree that the rapid consolidation of wealth at the top makes 'painful taxation for the top .1%' a 'sane, reasonable' policy that could unite a broad coalition.
Miller cites, 'The richest Americans saw their net worth soar 120% from 2017 to 2025... the top 1%... control more 55 trillion in assets.' () Katz states, 'the idea that... we should just like take a little bit of that to help everyone else feels like the most sane reasonable. We should all agree on this thing.' ()
Bottom Line
The 'horseshoe alliance' between the populist left and right, driven by anti-establishment sentiment, can inadvertently provide cover for right-wing extremism if not carefully navigated.
Candidates like Zoran, by engaging with figures like Trump, risk being perceived as validating elements of the MAGA movement among younger, anti-establishment voters who may then be exposed to genuinely hateful content through algorithmic pipelines.
Left-populist figures have an obligation to explicitly condemn antisemitism and differentiate anti-Zionism from antisemitism, actively serving as a 'dam in that pipeline' to prevent voters from falling into extremist rabbit holes.
Key Concepts
Pragmatic Engagement
The strategy of engaging with political opponents, even those with vastly different ideologies, to achieve concrete, tangible benefits for constituents, prioritizing practical outcomes over ideological purity or public perception of alignment.
Top-Bottom Politics
A political framework that posits the fundamental issue in society is the consolidation of power and wealth at the very top, leading to the economic detriment of everyone else. This approach seeks to unite voters across traditional divides by focusing on shared economic grievances against elites.
Sewer Socialism
A concept (also referred to as 'technocratic socialism' by Bradley Tusk) emphasizing the importance of excellent, efficient government in delivering essential public services and infrastructure (like sewers, housing, transportation) as a foundation for broader social and economic progress, rather than solely focusing on abstract ideological expansion of services.
Kamala Conundrum
The challenge faced by political candidates, exemplified by Kamala Harris, where their positioning simultaneously alienates both the center-left (who see them as too liberal) and the progressive left (who see them as too centrist/corporate), resulting in a muddled identity and lack of clear appeal.
Lessons
- Prioritize tangible constituent benefits over ideological purity when engaging with political opponents, even highly controversial ones.
- Develop clear, coherent messaging on critical issues like foreign policy, avoiding vague process-oriented statements and directly addressing public concerns.
- Build political coalitions around a core economic populist message that addresses wealth consolidation and affordability, allowing flexibility on cultural issues based on local electorate needs.
- Actively differentiate between legitimate criticism of foreign governments (e.g., anti-Zionism) and hate speech (e.g., antisemitism) to prevent extremist narratives from gaining traction.
- Focus on demonstrating 'government of excellence' through efficient delivery of public services and infrastructure to build trust and support for a larger role of government.
Notable Moments
Morris Katz's origin story, transitioning from aspiring TV writer to political strategist after a candidate appreciated his profile and offered him a job, leading to a formative '100-day tour' in rural North Carolina.
This highlights an unconventional path into political strategy, emphasizing the power of narrative and direct engagement with voters to shape a populist political identity, moving away from 'Green New Deal' language to more resonant local economic concerns.
The hosts' discussion about the 'warmth of collectivism' quote from Zoran, contrasting it with Romney's 'you didn't build that' and discussing its interpretation.
This moment underscores the careful tightrope walk of populist messaging, where seemingly innocuous phrases can be misinterpreted or used to caricature a candidate's ideology, especially in a politically charged environment.
Quotes
"I thought, why why hang out with a with a rhino when I can hang out with a real a real Republican who never backed away from what they believed in."
"Rural North Carolina deserves better than a GoFundMe healthcare system and a dollar store economy. We need a rural New Deal because we should have universal broadband and post offices should have banking."
"Donald Trump is the president of the United States. We don't have control over that at this moment... The president of the United States has an incredible ability to improve or decrease the quality of life for New Yorkers."
"The fundamental issue in our country right now is a consolidation of power and wealth at the very top and everyone else is being screwed."
"Not all not all anti-zionism is anti-semitism. Um but anti-semitism certainly at moments manifests as anti-ionism."
"The idea that with the wealth that we're seeing consolidate at such a rapid pace, maybe we should just like take a little bit of that to help everyone else feels like the most sane reasonable. We should all agree on this thing."
Q&A
Recent Questions
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