Johnnie Clark - Surviving One of the Deadliest Jobs During the Vietnam War | SRS #317
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Quick Read
Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Johnnie Clark joined the Marine Corps at 17 and was assigned as a machine gunner to the Fifth Marine Regiment in Vietnam.
- ❖He was wounded three times and awarded the Silver Star, three Purple Hearts, and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry with Palm.
- ❖Clark's memoir, 'Guns Up,' is recommended reading at the Marine Corps School of Infantry and on the Commandant's reading list.
- ❖Upon returning from Vietnam, Clark was met with protesters throwing tomatoes and eggs, and encountered a bar sign stating 'no Marines or dogs allowed'.
- ❖He was arrested shortly after returning home for decking a protester who spit on his shoes, but was released by Marine veteran police officers.
- ❖Clark wrote 'Guns Up' out of anger to counter the negative public perception that Marines were 'killing women and kids' in Vietnam.
- ❖Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island employed extreme psychological and physical tactics, including making a recruit do leg lifts until he got a hernia and encouraging another to jump from a water tower.
- ❖Machine gunners in Vietnam were considered the most dangerous role, with a life expectancy of 7-10 seconds in a firefight due to tracer rounds revealing their position.
- ❖Clark's friend Chan, a Chinese-American genius with a ministry minor, became the world's leading cardiovascular perfusion expert after war injuries prevented him from becoming an open-heart surgeon.
- ❖Clark's three-man killer teams were tasked with ambushing NVA killer squads that terrorized villages into supplying communists.
Insights
1Hostile Homecoming for Vietnam Veterans
Johnnie Clark's return from Vietnam was marked by extreme public hostility, including being pelted with food by protesters and encountering discriminatory signs. This experience motivated him to write his memoir to correct the public's negative perception of Marines.
Clark describes being greeted at El Toro with tomatoes and eggs thrown by protesters, and seeing a bar sign that read 'no Marines or dogs allowed'. He states he wrote 'Guns Up' out of anger because 'the American people really believed' Marines were 'killing women and kids'.
2Brutal and Effective Marine Corps Training
The training at Paris Island was designed to instill extreme discipline and resilience through harsh physical and psychological torment. This intense conditioning prepared recruits to endure unimaginable conditions in combat, such as remaining motionless while being attacked by insects and snakes.
Clark recounts a recruit being forced to do leg lifts until he got a hernia, and another being dared to jump from a water tower by drill instructors. He notes that despite the 'torture training,' it worked, as he and his fellow Marines 'had discipline' and 'wouldn't move' even with snakes crawling over them in Vietnam.
3Machine Gunners as Priority Targets in Vietnam
The role of a machine gunner was exceptionally dangerous due to the use of tracer rounds, which, while essential for directing fire and air support, also made their positions highly visible targets for the enemy. This led to a very short life expectancy for machine gunners in combat.
Clark was told in machine gun school and confirmed by veteran 'Big Red' that '7 to 10 seconds after a firefight begins' a machine gunner would be targeted. He explains that every fifth round being a tracer round created a 'laser beam' effect, making them 'the only steady target' amidst muzzle flashes, and that 'every good army' is taught to 'knock out the machine gun first'.
4The Unconventional Path of Chan, the 'Giant Brain'
Johnnie's close friend Chan, a Chinese-American immigrant and intellectual, chose to serve as a PFC machine gunner despite his potential for an officer's commission and a career as an open-heart surgeon. War injuries redirected his path, leading him to become a world-renowned expert in cardiovascular perfusion.
Chan was a 'genius' with a 'minor in ministry' who 'could have been an officer' but 'wanted to pay America back'. After sustaining 17 surgeries on his arm, he couldn't tie surgical knots, ending his dream of being a surgeon. However, he 'went on to become the leading cardiovascular perfusion expert in the world'.
5The Unpredictable Soundtrack of War: An Ambush by 'In the Midnight Hour'
During a night ambush, Johnnie Clark, dozing from exhaustion, heard the Young Rascals' 'In the Midnight Hour.' He initially thought it was a dream, but it was an NVA soldier with a boombox playing Armed Forces Radio. This surreal moment preceded a close-quarters KBAR fight, highlighting the bizarre and unexpected elements of combat.
Clark recounts hearing the Young Rascals while dozing, realizing it was an NVA soldier's boombox playing Armed Forces Radio, and then engaging in a KBAR fight. He later met Felix Cavaleri of the Young Rascals and told him the story. (, )
6Humanity Amidst Hostility: The Rescue of a Cursing NVA Girl
Marines, despite being a small unit deep in enemy territory near the Ho Chi Minh Trail, called in a 'Jolly Green' chopper to medevac a severely wounded NVA girl they had shot. This risky operation was undertaken even as the girl cursed them, demonstrating a commitment to medical ethics and human life that contrasted sharply with the brutality of war.
Clark describes hitting a girl with a .60 cal during an ambush, her cursing Marines as 'devils,' and the subsequent dangerous medevac by a 'Jolly Green' chopper, risking many lives. (, )
7The 'Mercy Killing' and Its Lingering Trauma
After a grenade exchange in a bunker, Marines discovered a severely wounded NVA nurse with a cracked skull. Recognizing she wouldn't survive, they performed a 'mercy killing.' Decades later, a reunion revealed her full identity, intensifying the lasting psychological burden of such a decision.
Clark details finding a girl with a cracked skull in a bunker, the decision to 'put her out of her misery' with an M16 and then a .45, and Sergeant Stacy Watson later revealing her full ID at a reunion, which 'sent me over the edge.' (, )
8Unomtock's Tragic Loyalty: A Terrified Marine's Ultimate Sacrifice
Unomtock, a Marine so terrified he would shake, chatter his teeth, and urinate on himself during ambushes, was offered an 'out' from Vietnam. He refused, stating he wouldn't go home until all Marines did. Despite efforts to help him, he tragically died of heart failure during a fierce graveyard battle, without a visible wound.
Clark describes Unomtock's extreme fear, his refusal to go home ('I ain't going home till all the Marines go home'), being placed with Clark's team to 'chill him out,' and his death from heart failure in the graveyard battle. (, , )
9The Mitchell Page Miracle: Divine Intervention in WWII Combat
Medal of Honor recipient Mitchell Page, the inspiration for the GI Joe doll, recounted a WWII miracle on Guadalcanal. During a critical moment, as a Japanese soldier fired 30 rounds at point-blank range, Page was 'frozen in place' by God, preventing him from leaning forward into the gunfire. He emerged unharmed, attributing his survival to divine intervention, a story that deeply resonated with Clark's own faith.
Clark recounts Mitchell Page's story of being 'frozen in place' by God, feeling 'total peace,' and surviving 30 rounds fired under his chin, then finding his Bible open to Proverbs 3:5. (, )
10Johnnie Clark's Divine Encounter on Graybeard Mountain
In 2004, seeking solitude, Johnnie Clark experienced a profound spiritual crisis on a North Carolina mountain. After praying for purpose, he was 'frozen' mid-step on a trail and heard an audible voice say, 'Johnny, get up. Johnny, I want you to walk a little further with me.' This led him to a plaque inscribed with Psalm 121, which he interpreted as a direct message about humility and God's guidance.
Clark describes being frozen on the trail, hearing an audible voice, and finding a plaque with Psalm 121. He recounts this as a deeply personal, life-altering event.
11Miraculous Confirmations of Clark's Spiritual Experience
Following his mountain encounter, Clark received multiple, seemingly impossible confirmations of the divine message. A pamphlet from a missionary group he rarely heard from arrived, featuring Psalm 121. A friend discovered Psalm 121 was a favorite verse of a character in Clark's own previously published book, appearing twice. The next day, a book sent for endorsement opened to Psalm 121, and his church sang a song based on it that Sunday.
The arrival of the Missionary Ventures pamphlet with Psalm 121 (), the discovery of Psalm 121 in his book 'Gunner's Glory' (), the new book opening to Psalm 121 (), and the church song ().
12The 'Guns Up' Publishing Miracle and Integrity
Johnnie Clark's book, 'Guns Up,' was rejected by every publisher for four years. After being convicted by a Bible verse ('For those who honor God, God will honor'), he spent six months rewriting the book to remove all profanity. The day he finished, three magazines that had rejected his submissions years prior suddenly wanted to publish excerpts. Within a month, nine publishers, including Random House, sought the book. Random House even asked him to reinsert profanity, which he refused, yet they still published it. The book has been in print for 42 years.
Four years of rejection (), conviction by 'For those who honor God, God will honor' (), six months rewriting to remove profanity (), immediate calls from magazines (), nine publishers wanting the book (), Random House's request to add profanity (), and the book's 42-year print run ().
13Shawn Ryan's Spiritual Awakening in Sedona
During a dark period after the Afghanistan withdrawal, grappling with societal issues and the death of a friend, Shawn Ryan experienced a profound spiritual awakening in Sedona. This included an emotional breakdown on a flight, a frustrating search for 'energy vortexes,' and a pivotal encounter with an old man who articulated Ryan's unspoken internal struggles. This was followed by a series of 'coincidences' involving a deceased friend's doppelgänger and a text from his friend's daughter.
Ryan's emotional breakdown on the flight (), the encounter with the old man at the gate () who 'read his mind' (), the doppelgänger of his deceased friend Gabe (), and the text from Dan Surillo's daughter ().
14The 444 Synchronicity and Guardian Angels
Following his Sedona experience, Shawn Ryan had a midnight conversation about spiritual warfare and guardian angels, then a noon meeting where his IT guy spontaneously brought up guardian angels. Later that day, while driving, his car's 'miles to empty' read 444, and the clock showed 4:44 PM, exactly 4 hours and 44 minutes after his meeting. A quick Google search confirmed 444 as a sign from guardian angels, reinforcing his belief in divine presence.
Midnight call with Eddie Penny (), noon meeting with IT guy about guardian angels (), car odometer and clock showing 444 (), and the Google search result for 444 ().
15M60 Machine Gunner's Loadout and Survival in Vietnam
Johnnie Clark details the critical role and extreme danger of being an M60 machine gunner in Vietnam, with a 7-10 second life expectancy in a firefight. He carried 400 rounds himself, often without the full five-man ammo team. He recounts firing the M60 until the barrel glowed red or white hot, necessitating cooling with water or urine, as spare barrels were unavailable to Marines. The jungle environment made weapon maintenance extremely difficult, requiring constant cleaning of the gas cylinder.
7-10 second life expectancy (), carrying 400 rounds (), lack of five-man team (), barrels glowing red/white hot (), cooling with water/urine (), and the need for meticulous cleaning in the jungle ().
16Intergenerational Impact of Military Literature
Johnnie Clark's book "Guns Up" profoundly influenced younger generations of Marines, specifically Major Scott Husing, who later wrote "Echo and Ramadi," demonstrating how shared narratives can inspire and connect service members across different conflicts.
Clark recounts Major Scott Husing showing up at his door, stating he wanted to meet Clark since reading "Guns Up" as a Lance Corporal, and how the book was shared among squads.
17The Power of Recommendation in Media
Jocko Willink's recommendation was the catalyst for Johnnie Clark appearing on the Shawn Ryan Show, highlighting the significant influence of trusted voices in expanding a podcast's reach and guest roster.
Clark states, "ever since it started when Jaco came on your show and suggested me... I've been nervous."
Bottom Line
The widespread unreliability of the M16 rifle in Vietnam, dubbed 'Matty Mattels,' forced Marines to carry older, more dependable M14s and led to significant casualties.
This highlights a critical failure in military procurement and equipment readiness during the war, directly impacting soldier morale and survival. It suggests that frontline feedback on equipment can be vital but was perhaps not adequately addressed.
Modern military procurement and R&D should prioritize rapid, iterative feedback loops from combat zones to ensure equipment effectiveness and soldier trust, potentially through embedded tech teams or direct design input from operators.
NVA soldiers listened to Armed Forces Radio Network, leading to surreal combat encounters where American pop music became the soundtrack to an ambush.
This reveals an unexpected cultural crossover and shared human experience (music appreciation) even between warring factions. It also demonstrates the pervasive reach of American media and the psychological impact of such an incongruous backdrop to violence.
Psychological operations could leverage popular culture elements, including music, to influence enemy morale or create disorienting effects, rather than solely relying on traditional propaganda.
Authenticity and integrity in content creation, even against industry norms, can lead to unexpected success and broader impact.
Johnnie Clark's decision to remove profanity from his war memoir, despite being told it would ruin the book, directly led to its publication by a major house and a 42-year print run, reaching audiences who might otherwise have been alienated.
Content creators should consider how adherence to personal values and a commitment to broader accessibility, rather than conforming to perceived industry expectations, can unlock unforeseen opportunities and resonate with a wider, more diverse audience.
Profound personal crises, often stemming from disillusionment with societal or global events, can be catalysts for deep spiritual transformation and a re-evaluation of one's purpose.
Both Clark and Ryan experienced spiritual awakenings during periods of intense personal and external turmoil, finding peace and clarity through divine intervention when conventional solutions failed.
Individuals and organizations supporting mental health or personal development could explore integrating spiritual or existential frameworks to help people navigate crises, recognizing that a search for meaning often accompanies periods of darkness.
Opportunities
Faith-Based Content Consulting for Authors
Offer specialized consulting services for authors who want to publish content aligned with specific faith or moral values, helping them navigate industry expectations (e.g., profanity, controversial topics) while maintaining integrity and reaching their target audience. This would include manuscript review, publisher matching, and marketing strategies for faith-aligned works.
Key Concepts
Combat Fatigue vs. PTSD
The speaker differentiates between 'combat fatigue' and 'PTSD,' preferring the former as a more specific and less generalized term for the psychological impact of war, arguing that 'PTSD' lumps together too many disparate traumas.
The 'Sleepwalking' State of Extreme Exhaustion
Describes a state of profound physical and mental exhaustion in combat where soldiers operate on autopilot, making fundamental tactical errors due to lack of sleep and constant stress, highlighting the degradation of decision-making under prolonged duress.
Divine Providence
The belief that God intervenes in human affairs, guiding events and individuals towards a specific purpose, as evidenced by Johnnie Clark's spiritual journey and book publication, and Shawn Ryan's series of confirming events.
Humility as a Spiritual Catalyst
The idea that embracing humility can open one to deeper spiritual understanding and divine connection, as Johnnie Clark realized during his mountain retreat, linking it to Moses's character.
Spiritual Warfare
The concept that individuals, especially those honoring God, are subject to unseen spiritual battles and attacks, as discussed by Shawn Ryan and Johnnie Clark in the context of their personal struggles and the world's darkness.
Lessons
- For aspiring writers, focus on writing like you talk and for personal fulfillment, rather than solely for commercial success. Consider creative writing courses for structure and critique.
- To preserve family stories, especially from veterans, encourage them to write for their family, not necessarily for publication. Self-publishing platforms like Amazon can facilitate this.
- Recognize and address the potential for post-service trauma and societal rejection that veterans may face, ensuring support systems are in place for their reintegration and well-being.
- Prioritize sleep and mental breaks in high-stress environments to avoid 'sleepwalking' errors and maintain tactical effectiveness.
- Cultivate strong team bonds and mutual accountability, like Swift Eagle's extreme measures, to ensure vigilance and survival in dangerous situations.
- Seek spiritual or psychological solitude when grappling with severe trauma, as recommended by Clark's pastor, to process experiences and find peace.
- Cultivate humility in your personal and professional life, recognizing that it can open doors to unexpected insights and guidance, as Johnnie Clark experienced.
- When facing creative or professional roadblocks, consider whether compromising your core values for perceived industry acceptance is truly necessary; sometimes, integrity can lead to unforeseen breakthroughs.
- Pay attention to 'coincidences' and synchronicities in your life, as they may be signs or confirmations guiding you through difficult periods, as both Clark and Ryan describe.
- Explore "Echo and Ramadi" by Major Scott Husing for insights into the Iraq War, especially if interested in military narratives.
- Consider supporting podcasts by sharing, liking, commenting, and reviewing to help them reach a wider audience, as emphasized by the host's closing remarks.
- Reflect on the role of faith and courage in public life, as discussed in Johnnie Clark's closing prayer for Shawn Ryan.
Notable Moments
Johnnie Clark describes his 'welcome home' from Vietnam, being met by protesters throwing tomatoes and eggs, and seeing a bar sign that read 'no Marines or dogs allowed'.
This vividly illustrates the profound societal rejection and hostility faced by many Vietnam veterans, contrasting sharply with the welcome given to veterans of other wars and highlighting a unique historical trauma.
During boot camp at Paris Island, a drill instructor made a 'fat body' recruit do leg lifts until he got a hernia, and another recruit who threatened to jump from a water tower was dared to do so by DIs, then beaten when he came down.
These anecdotes demonstrate the extreme, almost torturous, methods used in Marine Corps training to break recruits down and rebuild them with unwavering discipline, which ultimately proved crucial for survival in combat.
Johnnie Clark and his two-man killer team lay hidden as over 200 NVA soldiers walk so close they could smell their garlic and see their sandals, unable to move for fear of being discovered.
This moment underscores the intense psychological pressure and discipline instilled by Marine Corps training, where the ability to remain absolutely still under extreme duress was a matter of life and death for the entire team.
Johnnie Clark's hair fell out in one night due to severe combat fatigue.
This dramatic physical manifestation underscores the extreme psychological and physiological toll of combat trauma, highlighting that mental stress can have profound and immediate physical consequences.
Clark and Chan made coffee with C4 explosives during an intense firefight, leading to a humorous reprimand from their Gunny.
This illustrates the dark humor and coping mechanisms soldiers develop in prolonged combat, finding moments of normalcy and defiance amidst chaos to maintain sanity and morale.
Clark set up punji pits (2x4s with nails) around his cabin in North Carolina while trying to find solitude and peace, reflecting persistent combat vigilance.
This demonstrates the deeply ingrained survival instincts and hyper-vigilance that veterans carry long after leaving the battlefield, showing how combat experiences reshape one's sense of security and environment.
Johnnie Clark is 'frozen' mid-step on a mountain trail and hears an audible voice after praying for purpose.
This marks the direct, undeniable divine intervention that initiated a profound spiritual shift for Clark, leading to a clearer understanding of his path.
Clark finds a plaque with Psalm 121 on Graybeard Mountain, immediately after his divine encounter.
This served as a direct, tangible confirmation of the spiritual message he had just received, anchoring the experience in a specific biblical context.
Shawn Ryan's internal battle against societal darkness culminates in an old man at a resort gate who seemingly reads his mind, addressing his unspoken anxieties.
This unexpected and deeply personal encounter served as a direct, external validation of Ryan's internal struggles, pushing him towards a spiritual awakening after a period of deep despair.
Ryan receives a text from his deceased friend's daughter, conveying a message of love and acceptance, 'just the way that you are,' at a pivotal moment of emotional breakdown.
This highly improbable event provided profound emotional and spiritual comfort, suggesting a connection beyond the physical realm and confirming the presence of divine or spiritual support.
Johnnie Clark, at 76, hits a small jar of tannerite from the hip with an M60 machine gun at 150 yards, after not having fired one in 50 years, impressing young Marines.
This moment demonstrates a remarkable retention of skill and instinct, serving as a powerful anecdote about veteran capabilities and a 'full circle' experience with his combat weapon.
Gift of a Sig Sauer Weapon
The host presents Johnnie Clark with a Sig Sauer pistol equipped with a suppressor, a significant and personalized gesture of appreciation, underscoring the deep respect and camaraderie between them.
Revelation of Major Scott Husing's Connection
Johnnie Clark reveals that Major Scott Husing, author of "Echo and Ramadi," was deeply inspired by Clark's earlier work, "Guns Up," as a young Marine, highlighting intergenerational connections within the veteran community.
Johnnie Clark's Closing Prayer
Clark leads a heartfelt prayer for Shawn Ryan, giving thanks for his platform and courage, and asking for protection against spiritual attacks, emphasizing the role of faith in their lives.
Quotes
"I wrote Guns Up out of anger. You know, when I came home from NAM, I was I mean, my my first uh I I had gotten healthy in Okinawa rehab there and been training in martial arts and I thought I was going back to NOM, but uh anyway, I came home and um they threw tomatoes at us, El Toro. I got off in El Toro and they I was greeted with guys throwing tomatoes and eggs at us and uh I was pushing a young guy off uh off the plane who uh he probably wasn't going to live."
"Write like you talk because I I I barely got out of high school. I had like, you know, Dminus average. They only they only kept me they kept me in a couple of classes because I was I was on a really good football team and I was no superstar, but they needed me. So So they didn't want to flug me."
"Okay, all you Marines that join my Marine Corps to kill the enemy, stand still. And all you Marines that join my Marine Corps to find the enemy and tell us to go kill them. Step over that line."
"When you're when you're entertained by hearing a flushing toilet. Uh I mean I'm sorry but it it's true."
"We were scared to death to fall asleep on lines. We had an Indian named Swift Eagle... he'd take a KBAR and and he'd reach around behind you and nick you, just nick you with a KBAR. Well, in NAM that Nick's going to get infected within a few hours. Everything got infected in Vietnam. So, you learned real quick, don't fall asleep."
"Marines. Marines, you're evil. Marines are devils. Marines are devils."
"If only they knew. We risked all those Marines to get this wounded girl out of there. We risk everybody's life and I know it and I the guys with me knew it."
"I ain't going home till all the Marines go home."
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will lead your path."
"Johnny, get up. Johnny, I want you to walk a little further with me."
"I lift my eyes to the mountains. From where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord who made heaven and earth."
"You look like Moses who'd seen the burning bush, man. Your face was red. you were flushed beyond flushed."
"For those who honor God, God will honor. And those who despise the Lord will be held in little esteem."
"Mr. Clark, I just had to tell you that we think this is the greatest war book that God ever wrote."
"God's always been around you. you just don't make time to let him in."
"444 is means your guardian angels want you to know that they're watching out for you."
"You're not going to hear this stuff die until God says so. He knows the exact second."
"My name is Major Scott Houston and uh I've wanted to meet you ever since I was a Lance Corporal."
"If if a Christian's on the sideline doing nothing, Satan leaves him alone. But when you got a man like Sean who's stepping up and uh stepping out front, he he's he's walking point, God, and that's that's hard to do down here."
Q&A
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