The Rubin Report Podcast
The Rubin Report Podcast
January 16, 2026

Listen to Room Go Quiet as Rubio Says the Ugly Truth About Iran

Quick Read

This episode exposes the vast disconnect between Iran's ruling clerics and its people, arguing that Western ideological biases often hinder effective intervention against a brutal regime.
85% of Iranians oppose the ruling clerics, who maintain power through a sophisticated security apparatus, not popular consent.
Western 'anti-imperialism' ideology is framed as a major barrier to intervention, even when mass atrocities occur.
Targeted military actions or cyber warfare could support the Iranian people without leading to a full-scale occupation like Iraq.

Summary

This episode features former CIA officer Mike Baker and activist Elica Leon discussing the situation in Iran, emphasizing the profound disconnect between the ruling Shiite clerics and the Iranian populace. Elica highlights that an estimated 85% of Iranians oppose the regime, viewing the assumption of popular support as absurd propaganda. Mike explains the regime's sophisticated security apparatus, which has historically crushed protests, but notes that modern technology makes it harder to isolate the population from global information. The discussion critically examines the US response, with Elica arguing that statements from figures like Trump often move goalposts and that a deep-seated 'anti-Western imperialism' ideology among Western elites prevents meaningful intervention, even against mass murderers. They differentiate potential targeted military actions from full-scale occupation and stress that Persian values align closely with Western ideals, making the Iranian people receptive to liberation, unlike some other Middle Eastern nations.
Understanding the true sentiment of the Iranian people versus their oppressive regime is critical for informed foreign policy. The discussion reveals how ideological blind spots in the West, particularly the fear of 'regime change' and 'Western imperialism,' can inadvertently enable authoritarian rule and human rights abuses, impacting global stability and the lives of millions seeking freedom.

Takeaways

  • The Iranian regime is fundamentally unrepresentative, with an estimated 85% of the population opposing it.
  • Modern technology, like social media and Starlink, makes it increasingly difficult for authoritarian regimes to fully isolate their populations.
  • Western ideological resistance to 'regime change' is presented as a primary reason for inaction, despite widespread human rights abuses by the Iranian government.

Insights

1Profound Disconnect Between Iranian People and Regime

Senator Marco Rubio highlights that the radical Shia clerics running Iran are not representative of the Iranian people, who possess an ancient culture and pride in their Persian heritage. Elica Leon supports this, stating consistent polling shows 85% of Iranians oppose the regime, calling any assumption of popular support 'absurd propaganda.'

Rubio's statement (), Elica Leon's reference to 85% opposition () and historical polling.

2Regime's Control and the Cycle of Protests

Mike Baker explains the Iranian regime maintains power through a 'sophisticated and entrenched security apparatus,' developed over decades. While recent protests felt different due to their spread across demographics, he expresses cynicism that they might follow the historical cycle of fizzling out or being crushed without significant external support.

Mike Baker's description of the security apparatus () and the cycle of protests since 1979 ().

3Technology's Role in Fueling and Sustaining Dissent

Young Iranians, particularly women, have access to global information via platforms like TikTok and Instagram, exposing them to liberal democracies and making their repressed lives intolerable. This constant exposure prevents normalization of their circumstances and fuels their indignation, making it harder for the regime to 'lock down' the population despite internet blackouts.

Elica Leon's explanation of young women's access to TikTok and global standards (), Mike Baker's comparison to the Cold War and 'tweeting through the Iron Curtain' ().

4Critique of Trump's Messaging and Conservative US Response

Elica Leon criticizes Trump's statements about killings stopping in Iran, viewing it as 'moving the goalpost' from an initial promise of intervention. She notes that US and Israeli responses have been 'extraordinarily conservative,' suggesting a lack of commitment to regime change despite rhetoric, possibly due to a bluff strategy.

Elica Leon's analysis of Trump's 'goalpost' shift () and conservative measures ().

5Legitimate Military Options Beyond Occupation

Mike Baker outlines potential US military options that could support Iranian protesters without full-scale regime change or occupation. These include cyber attacks to disrupt communication blackouts, targeted kinetic action against military units responsible for suppressing protests, or eliminating senior leadership. The goal is to provide meaningful support to empower the people to 'stay in the fight.'

Mike Baker's discussion of cyber attacks, economic sanctions (though less effective), and kinetic action against military bases or leadership ().

6Ideological Arrest: Western Anti-Interventionism

Elica Leon argues that a pervasive 'anti-Western imperialism' ideology, particularly among Western elites, has 'arrested' US foreign policy since Jimmy Carter. This ideology frames any Western intervention as the 'greatest evil,' even when it could prevent mass murder, leading to a 'mentally distorted' view where 'the crime is not the crime. The help is the crime.'

Elica Leon's historical examples of Carter and Obama () and her framing of 'Western intervention' as the 'greatest evil' ().

7Iran's Unique Alignment with Western Values

Elica Leon distinguishes Iran from other Middle Eastern nations, explaining that Persian values, rooted in ancient figures like Cyrus the Great (who penned the first human rights bill), closely mirror Western values. This historical context suggests that regime change in Iran would likely lead to a liberal democracy, unlike the outcomes in Iraq or Afghanistan, which are 'apples and oranges' comparisons.

Elica Leon's comparison of Iran to Iraq/Afghanistan () and her explanation of Persian values mirroring Western values ().

Bottom Line

The 're-education' process in elite Western academic institutions fosters an anti-Western sentiment that leads students to support Islamist terrorists as allies against the West, rather than protesting human rights abuses by regimes like Iran's.

So What?

This ideological conditioning creates a significant blind spot, where human rights violations by anti-Western entities are ignored or even tacitly supported, undermining universal human rights advocacy.

Impact

Challenge the underlying ideological frameworks in academia that prioritize anti-Westernism over humanitarian concerns, fostering a more nuanced and consistent approach to global human rights.

The phrase 'regime change' carries negative connotations due to past US interventions (Iraq, Afghanistan), overshadowing the potential for targeted actions that could empower oppressed populations without leading to prolonged occupation.

So What?

This semantic barrier prevents public and political will for interventions that might genuinely benefit populations, even when such interventions are distinct from previous 'debacles.'

Impact

Develop and promote a clearer communication strategy that differentiates between various forms of intervention (e.g., cyber, targeted strikes, support for internal movements) and their specific goals, moving beyond the loaded term 'regime change' to articulate precise objectives and limited engagements.

Lessons

  • Challenge the narrative that the Iranian people support their ruling clerics by citing evidence of widespread opposition and the regime's oppressive tactics.
  • Recognize and critique the 'anti-Western imperialism' ideology that can paralyze effective international responses to human rights crises, even when intervention could save lives.
  • Advocate for a more nuanced discussion around foreign policy, distinguishing between prolonged military occupations and targeted support (e.g., cyber, intelligence, limited strikes) that could empower local populations seeking freedom.

Quotes

"

"In no way is the clerics who run that country representative of the people of that country and of its history and of contributions it's made to humanity."

Marco Rubio
"

"The crime is not the crime. The help is the crime. How have we become so distorted, mentally distorted, that criminals committing mass murderer is no crime, but the intervention from the outside world is the real danger?"

Elica Leon
"

"You'll never get stability or long-term or midterm peace in the Middle East... and all the ripple effects that spread out across the globe as long as the Iranian regime stays in place. It's just that it's that simple."

Mike Baker

Q&A

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