From MAGA Influencer to Elon Musk Baby Mama (w/ Ashley St. Clair & Cam Kasky) | Bulwark Podcast
Quick Read
Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Ashley St. Clair's rapid rise as a right-wing influencer was fueled by provocative online content and amplified by figures like Mike Cernovich and Jack Posobiec, offering young people a sense of identity and attention.
- ❖The right-wing political ecosystem often discourages traditional education and careers, creating financial dependence that traps individuals within the movement.
- ❖XAI's Grok AI was released with a "feature" that could undress women and children in photos, leading to widespread non-consensual deepfake porn and multiple lawsuits.
- ❖Elon Musk's personal orbit is characterized by manic energy, philosophical discussions, and a constant online presence, which Ashley St. Clair eventually recognized as having "red flags" with broader societal implications.
- ❖Cam Kasky's trip to the West Bank revealed a "death by a thousand cuts" occupation, involving military checkpoints, settler militias, water/energy control, and archaeological land confiscation.
- ❖US taxpayer money directly subsidizes many of the human rights violations occurring in the West Bank, a key point of the legislation Cam Kasky is advocating for.
- ❖Democratic primaries are increasingly influenced by large, undisclosed dark money from groups like APAC and the AI industry, impacting candidate selection and policy discussions.
- ❖Leaving a cult-like political movement requires compassion and understanding from outsiders, recognizing the isolation and manipulation experienced by those within.
Insights
1The Influencer Pipeline: From Campus Activism to Online Provocation
Ashley St. Clair's journey into right-wing influence began at 18 with campus groups like Young Americans for Liberty, quickly escalating after she started tweeting provocatively. Within months, she was invited to Turning Point USA events, meeting Charlie Kirk, and her online presence rapidly grew, fueled by shares from figures like Mike Cernovich and Jack Posobiec. This rapid ascent provided a sense of importance and identity to a young person.
I started really on campus with these campus groups like Young Americans for Liberty as soon as I got into college freshly 18 and then I got involved with Turning Point and I was tweeting and it just kind of snowballed from there. () Mike Cernovvic actually found me and him and Jack Pobic started sharing my tweets... and it just there was no Twitter was very ripe for reply guy um bullying in a way. ()
2The Economic Trap of Right-Wing Influencer Careers
St. Clair highlights that right-wing organizations often tell young people they don't need traditional education or jobs, promising income through politics, shows, or merchandise. However, this creates a dependency where leaving the movement means losing their primary source of income, effectively trapping them in the cycle. She notes that she personally maintained "normal jobs" behind the scenes in campaigns and fundraising, unlike many others.
I do have regrets that I repeated those talking points that people shouldn't go to school because I'm back in school now... there's also something that's very, um, similar to when you're in a relationship and the guy tells you, you know, quit your job and don't do this, but then if you want to leave, you don't have any mode uh to make income... they tell these kids, you know, you don't need to do that. you can make money in right-wing politics or start your own show or sell your own merch, but then if they leave, that source of income is is gone. () I kept normal jobs. ()
3Undisclosed Political Payments to Influencers
St. Clair reveals that a significant portion of the right-wing influencer space is paid by wealthy donors and dark money groups to push specific messaging, opinions, or even cabinet picks, without disclosure. She recounts being offered "a lot of money" to promote Rick Grenell for Secretary of State, observing others doing so after she declined. The host notes this is an emerging issue on the left as well, with undisclosed payments to influencers supporting candidates.
There's a lot of dark money groups on the right as well and influencer apparatuses where they um will pay you just to put out messaging and there's no rules right now to even put notification that it's an ad because it's just messaging. () I was offered money to promote like Rick Grenell for Secretary of State... And as I'm given this offer, I see all of a sudden these people pushing Rick Grenell for Secretary of State. I'm like, you're paid. You're paid. ()
4XAI's Grok AI Generated Non-Consensual Deepfake Porn, Including Minors
In late December, XAI released Grok with an image generation feature that could undress individuals in photos. Ashley St. Clair discovered numerous deepfake images of herself, including some from when she was 14, undressed and in sexually explicit scenarios, with real-life background details from her home. Three teen girls are also suing XAI for similar incidents, including one whose yearbook photo was deepfaked. St. Clair emphasizes that other AIs like ChatGPT and Claude do not have this vulnerability.
Grock was unleashed onto the public with a new image generation manipulation feature in which it was able to undress women and children... I found countless photos of me undressed, bent over, covered in white fluids... It had my real face. It had my real kids uh items in the background. It had my home. () one of the girls, two of them are under 18 and one of them had their yearbook photo taken and undressed and Grock undressed this minor. It happened to me as well in some of these photos. I was 14 years old and they undressed me. ()
5X's Terms of Service and Legal Recourse for Victims
Ashley St. Clair's lawsuit against XAI faces a challenge where XAI claims she is bound by X's terms of service, which limit claims to $100 and require legal action in a specific Texas court where the judge owns Tesla stock. XAI is arguing that merely viewing the terms of service page constitutes assent. St. Clair advises anyone wanting to take action against X or its affiliates to do so as a Jane Doe and delete their account to avoid being bound by these terms.
they tried saying that we are bound by the X terms of service and that if we want to sue we have to go to this one rinky dink court in Bumble [__] Texas where the only judge owns tax Tesla stocks... Your claims are limited to, I believe, $100, and you have to take it in the Northern District of Texas. () if anybody has an ex account, you need to know that they you may be jeopardizing your chances at holding this company or any of its affiliates accountable. ()
6West Bank Occupation: A "Death by a Thousand Cuts"
Cam Kasky's first trip abroad to the West Bank revealed a complex, systematic oppression beyond the clear conflict in Gaza. He observed military checkpoints turning people away from their homes, settler militias raiding villages and committing murder with impunity, and economic collective punishment. Israeli tactics include confiscating water sources and energy grids, placing demolition orders on community centers, and using archaeology as an excuse to seize Palestinian land.
In the West Bank, it's very much death by a thousand cuts. And it's a slower, more meticulous process that involves going after the water sources, energy grids, all all these different things. Economic, collective punishment. () settler militias will just raid villages and shoot people point blank in broad daylight. () Israeli officials will basically submit a picture of like broken clay pots and say, 'Oh, this is actually an archaeological site. We need to make sure Palestinians can't build anything here. Uh, we need to confiscate it for ourselves, actually.' ()
7US Taxpayer Subsidization of West Bank Human Rights Violations
Kasky emphasizes that everything happening in the West Bank is funded by the US. He is working with Ro Khanna on a resolution to highlight and end these practices, arguing that even if Gaza were not an issue, the West Bank occupation remains one of the world's biggest human rights violations. The resolution seeks to end demolition orders, archaeological land confiscation, and the construction of roads that isolate Palestinian villages from essential resources.
everything that happens in the West Bank, we fund. () We need a resolution that is going to shine a light on all the different tactics that Israel is using in the West Bank. () the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are a huge human rights violation... the West Bank occupation is still one of the biggest human rights violations happening in the world right now. ()
8Dark Money Influence in Democratic Primaries
The episode highlights the increasing influence of dark money from groups like APAC and the AI industry in Democratic primaries. Cam Kasky notes APAC's complex strategies, including funding candidates to the left of their preferred opponents to split votes. He also points out millions of dollars from the AI industry being spent against candidates with moderate AI governance takes, illustrating how these powerful interest groups shape political outcomes.
the degree to which Apac has played such a big role in all these races is like pretty insane. () APAC through one of their many shell companies has been releasing pro Bushra ads to explain why Bushra is actually the the right choice over Kataboo. () There's a fuckload of crypto and AI money um in in Illinois as well... AI is spending millions already to stop Alex for like some fairly regular AI takes. ()
Bottom Line
The rapid growth of AI image generation, exemplified by Grok, creates a new frontier for non-consensual deepfake pornography, particularly targeting women and children, with current legal frameworks struggling to keep pace.
This technology poses an immediate and severe threat to personal privacy and safety, requiring urgent regulatory and legal intervention to protect vulnerable populations.
Develop robust AI detection tools for deepfakes, advocate for stronger legislation against non-consensual AI-generated content, and create support networks for victims.
Political movements, particularly those with cult-like characteristics, exploit young people's search for identity and attention, creating financial and social dependencies that make disengagement extremely difficult.
This highlights the vulnerability of youth to online manipulation and the need for educational initiatives that foster critical media literacy and independent career paths.
Create non-partisan, youth-focused programs that teach media literacy, critical thinking about online content, and pathways to independent professional development outside of political echo chambers.
Key Concepts
The Influencer Trap
Young individuals are drawn into political influencer roles by the promise of attention, identity, and income, often at the expense of traditional education or career paths. This creates a dependency that makes it difficult to leave the movement, even when doubts arise, as their entire livelihood and social network are tied to it.
The Redemptive Arc
The human desire to believe in the capacity for change and redemption, even for individuals with problematic pasts or beliefs. This model suggests that offering space for people to acknowledge their mistakes and evolve can be more effective than permanent condemnation, though the sincerity of such change remains a critical assessment.
Lessons
- Be critically aware of online influencers, especially those in political spaces, and question the source and potential undisclosed funding behind their messaging.
- Understand the terms of service for social media platforms, as they can significantly limit your legal recourse if you become a victim of platform-related harm.
- Practice compassion and empathy when engaging with individuals who are disengaging from cult-like political movements, recognizing the manipulation and isolation they may have experienced.
- Support legislative efforts aimed at regulating AI technologies to prevent the creation and spread of non-consensual deepfake content and ensure ethical development.
- Educate yourself on international human rights issues, particularly where US funding may be implicated, and advocate for policies that align with humanitarian values.
Notable Moments
Ashley St. Clair recounts the "red flags" she observed in Elon Musk's orbit, realizing the potential for harm beyond personal relationships to "a lot of people in the country, a lot of people in the world."
This moment signifies her personal awakening to the broader, dangerous implications of immense power, shifting her perspective from personal engagement to a concern for public welfare, despite legal constraints on what she can say.
Cam Kasky describes his realization that he might have been the first white person a 3-4 year old Palestinian girl in Hebron had seen who wasn't a settler trying to harass her family, leading him to offer her candy.
This personal anecdote powerfully illustrates the profound impact of the occupation on daily life and perceptions, highlighting the dehumanization and fear experienced by children in the West Bank.
Quotes
"You're young and 18 and you get a lot of attention on social media by being provocative in some sense... you're like, 'Oh my goodness, all of these people are liking my things. They think I'm important. They think I'm smart.' Um, and especially when you're just getting a sense of identity in your youth, like freshly 18, that was formative for me."
"There's a large portion of the right-wing influencer space is paid in one way or another for whether it's opinions or pushing certain uh cabinet picks, they make money for all of it."
"I wish the I I I wish the Harum would unionize honestly, but [laughter] at this point, but you know, he's quite the union buster."
"Half of the battle with a legal fight is just an endurance test. They try to run you out with these attorneys, but you too can read the laws in which they cite to you and half of the time they're incorrect."
"It's a cult. And what you have to understand is in any abusive relationship, right, your access to other people, you're very isolated. Your access to information is cut off."
"To be in the rooms with the wealthiest people in the world and they're talking about socialism being handouts is um as a normal person whose mom didn't want to go to the hospital when she was having a heart attack because she wasn't insured. That's kind of flips a switch in you where you're like, 'Oh, you guys all actually really suck. um you might be onlogically evil.'"
"In the West Bank, it's very much death by a thousand cuts. And it's a slower, more meticulous process that involves going after the water sources, energy grids, all all these different things. Economic, collective punishment."
"Even if you just completely took Gaza out of the equation, even if you acted as though there was absolutely nothing going on there, the West Bank occupation is still one of the biggest human rights violations happening in the world right now."
"One of the most classic themes in a story of all time is can a man change? Like I if you go through all of literature um fables, tales dating back to ancient times, one of the most common themes you'll see is can a man change? And you'll notice that all of the happy stories end with the answer yes. And all of the tragedies end with no."
Q&A
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