Julian Dorey Podcast
Julian Dorey Podcast
March 27, 2026

“Haunts Me!” - NYPD Terror Detective on 9/11, Epstein & Interrogation Mastery | Tom Smith • 401

Quick Read

Former NYPD Terror Detective Tom Smith details his 30-year career, from patrolling crime-ridden 90s Harlem to international counter-terrorism, offering insights into interrogation, leadership, and the psychological toll of high-stakes law enforcement.
Effective communication and respect are paramount for detectives, whether dealing with CEOs or street criminals.
The 9/11 attacks fundamentally reshaped inter-agency cooperation and the global scope of NYPD's counter-terrorism efforts.
Sustaining a long career in high-stress law enforcement requires strong personal outlets and the ability to compartmentalize traumatic experiences.

Summary

Tom Smith, a retired NYPD Terror Detective, recounts his extensive career, beginning in the crime-ridden streets of 1990s New York City during the crack epidemic. He shares how his upbringing by an NYPD detective father shaped his understanding of investigation and the importance of communication in policing. Smith details a harrowing 1993 shootout and his unique coping mechanism of compartmentalization through sports and family. After 9/11, he transitioned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF), where he gained federal status and traveled globally to prevent future attacks, emphasizing the critical shift in inter-agency information sharing. The conversation also explores the psychological impact of his work, the complexities of power, and societal issues like education and political short-sightedness, concluding with his innovative self-defense product, Impact.
This episode offers a rare, firsthand account of evolving law enforcement tactics, the psychological resilience required for high-stakes work, and the systemic challenges in addressing crime and terrorism. Smith's journey highlights the personal sacrifices and strategic shifts necessary to protect a major city, providing valuable lessons on leadership, communication, and the societal structures that perpetuate or combat criminality.

Takeaways

  • The crack epidemic in the 1980s and early 90s fueled an unprecedented crime wave in NYC, with Washington Heights becoming the drug capital of the Northeast.
  • Successful interrogations often involve building rapport through casual conversation before subtly transitioning to the case, catching suspects off guard.
  • The 9/11 attacks spurred a critical shift in U.S. law enforcement towards enhanced inter-agency information sharing and a global preventative counter-terrorism mandate for the NYPD JTTF.
  • Maintaining mental health in high-stress police work requires strong personal outlets like family and hobbies, as well as the ability to compartmentalize traumatic experiences.

Insights

1Evolution of Policing and Public Perception

Tom Smith notes a significant shift in policing from his start in 1990 to today. Historically, police were respected due to family upbringing emphasizing law and order. Today, media villainizes police, and social media amplifies incidents, making it harder for officers to act decisively, even in self-defense. In the 90s, officers were trained to 'never lose a fight' and were allowed to use necessary force.

Smith states, 'It's very different. The mindset's different, policies are different, laws are different, you know, and the way the public looks upon the police are different. And that's because of the media, you know, you get villainized.' He also mentions academy training: 'You're not allowed to lose a fight under any circumstances. You cannot lose a fight.'

2The Art of Interrogation: Communication and Rapport

Smith emphasizes that effective communication is the most crucial skill for a detective. He advocates for treating all individuals with respect, regardless of their background, and building rapport before delving into the case. His technique involved engaging suspects in casual conversation (e.g., sports) for 15-20 minutes to relax them and catch them off guard, making them more receptive to sharing information.

Smith advises, 'If there's one thing that you have to do and have to learn is your communication skills. If you can't talk to people, you're not going to be successful.' He describes his method: 'I would never walk in there talking about the case. My thing, I would walk in talk about sports for 20 minutes... it catches them off guard and it gets them like very relaxed.'

39/11's Impact on Law Enforcement and Information Sharing

Smith's experience on 9/11, from hearing the news in his car to arriving at Ground Zero, underscored a fundamental shift. The immediate aftermath involved chaos and a realization that 'the world changed.' Post-9/11, the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) expanded significantly, becoming the largest in the country. A critical improvement was enhanced inter-agency information sharing, a stark contrast to pre-9/11 failures where agencies withheld crucial intelligence.

Smith recalls, 'watching military planes fly around New York City was looking up and watching these things bank around New York going, 'All right, this is not the same. The world's not the same anymore.'' He highlights the JTTF's growth and the improvement in information sharing: 'The information sharing got much better and agencies started to work together and share information.'

4The Psychological Toll and Coping Mechanisms

Despite the intense and often traumatic nature of his work, Smith did not experience PTSD in his waking life but suffered from vivid nightmares where his gun often malfunctioned. His primary coping mechanisms included a long commute home to decompress, talking with his wife (a guidance counselor), and actively coaching youth sports. He stresses the importance of having an 'outlet' or 'release from this madness' for police officers.

Smith describes, 'My thing in my life was nightmares. I would have horrific nightmares... my gun never worked.' He credits his commute and wife: 'That hour plus ride home in the beginning of my career kind of set it in motion of getting it out of my head before I got home.' He advises young cops: 'You need an outlet. You need a release from this madness.'

5Societal Issues: Education and Generational Cycles

Smith argues that addressing generational cycles of crime requires significant investment in education and community programs, particularly for youth and adults. He criticizes politicians for ignoring these issues because 'kids get ignored because why? They don't speak up. So they're easy to get pushed to the side.' He advocates for diverse programs beyond sports to tap into varied interests and provide alternative paths.

Smith states, 'Schools, education, absolutely. That's where it starts.' He criticizes the lack of change: 'The New York City educational system has been the same since God knows when. Nothing's changed.' He suggests, 'You have to just have a network of different things that kids can tap into in a community. Don't just focus on sports.'

Bottom Line

The perception of 'power' drives both criminal masterminds like Nikki Barnes and successful business leaders, suggesting a common human desire for influence, manifested through different means (criminality vs. legitimate enterprise).

So What?

Understanding this underlying motivation can inform strategies for rehabilitation or redirection, by offering alternative avenues for achieving influence and recognition within legal frameworks.

Impact

Develop mentorship programs or community initiatives that identify individuals with strong leadership potential in at-risk communities and guide them towards legitimate paths where their drive for power can be channeled productively.

The 'coldness' or 'blindness' of New Yorkers, where they 'walk past' extraordinary or horrific events without being phased, contributes to the city's mystique but also allows systemic issues like Jeffrey Epstein's operations to persist unnoticed for extended periods.

So What?

This societal characteristic, while enabling a unique urban experience, can inadvertently create an environment where high-level criminality thrives due to a lack of collective scrutiny.

Impact

Implement public awareness campaigns or community engagement initiatives that encourage citizens to report unusual activities, even if seemingly minor, fostering a culture of collective vigilance without sacrificing the city's unique 'controlled chaos' dynamic.

Opportunities

Impact Self-Defense Spray

A non-lethal self-defense spray that acts as an extreme eye irritant, causing temporary blindness and burning without respiratory impact or cross-contamination. It features a targeted stream, nitrogen propulsion for long range (12-14 feet), and an invisible UV dye marker for suspect identification. It's designed for both law enforcement and public use.

Source: Tom Smith and his partner Dan developed this product as an alternative to traditional pepper spray.

Key Concepts

Compartmentalization

The ability to mentally separate traumatic or stressful work experiences from personal life, preventing them from 'avalanching' and causing broader psychological issues. Smith used sports coaching and family as outlets to process and release the day's events.

Controlled Chaos

A description of New York City's unique environment, where a constant, high level of activity and diverse human experiences are managed within an underlying, often unacknowledged, order. This allows residents to 'walk past' extraordinary events without being phased.

Lessons

  • Prioritize and develop strong communication skills, as they are fundamental for success in any field, particularly in high-stakes interactions.
  • Cultivate robust personal outlets and hobbies outside of demanding professional roles to effectively compartmentalize stress and maintain mental well-being.
  • Approach complex problems and individuals with an open mind, avoiding predetermined conclusions to ensure thorough and unbiased investigation or analysis.
  • Advocate for systemic changes in education and community programs, focusing on early intervention and diverse opportunities to break generational cycles of disadvantage.

Notable Moments

A 1993 shootout on 145th Street and Broadway where Smith, then a young patrol officer, engaged in a gun battle with armed robbers, resulting in an officer being shot and Smith tackling a suspect in the subway.

This event highlights the sudden, unpredictable danger of street policing and Smith's early experience in high-stress, life-or-death situations, shaping his resilience and reliance on training.

Smith's personal experience of 9/11, from hearing the news in his car with his daughter to driving into Ground Zero and witnessing the devastation, followed by his work at the Staten Island landfill.

This provides a visceral, firsthand account of a pivotal national tragedy and illustrates the immediate and long-term psychological and operational impact on first responders, leading to his transition into counter-terrorism.

Smith's deployment to Afghanistan as an NYPD detective in 2009 for a kidnapping case, highlighting the unique and challenging nature of international counter-terrorism work for local law enforcement.

This demonstrates the expanded global reach of the NYPD post-9/11 and the mental fortitude required to operate in war zones as a detective, underscoring the respect accorded to NYPD detectives internationally.

Quotes

"

"If there's one thing that you have to do and have to learn is your communication skills. If you can't talk to people, you're not going to be successful."

Tom Smith
"

"Detective Smith, it ain't about the drugs. It ain't about the money. It's about the power. I can get and do anything I want in this city."

Nikki Barnes (recounted by Tom Smith)
"

"Knowing a problem when you're a politician, knowing the problem is easy. Understanding the problem is what's important."

Tom Smith
"

"The world changed... Everything just changed. What? Seeing no commercial airlines and seeing military jets flying all over Manhattan. That was a holy crap."

Tom Smith
"

"When you have organizations, entities, agencies, whatever that just don't tell you the damn truth... when secrets are are told and non-truths are told is when conspiracies lose their mind and just take on a life of their own instead of just telling the truth."

Tom Smith

Q&A

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