Quick Read

Legal scholars dissect the Trump administration's alleged violations of international law, from 'extrajudicial murders' at sea to the attempted seizure of a foreign head of state, and question the ethical role of government lawyers.
US military strikes on boats in international waters are deemed illegal extrajudicial murders, not legitimate acts of war.
The attempted seizure of Venezuela's President Maduro violated the UN Charter and international head-of-state immunity.
A 'second socialization pathway' among some lawyers prioritizes maximizing executive power over fidelity to the rule of law.

Summary

This episode features a discussion with Milan Marovich, a professor of law at Texas A&M Law School, who analyzes the Trump administration's actions on the international stage through the lens of international law and legal ethics. The conversation focuses on two primary areas: the US military's strikes on boats in the Caribbean and Pacific, which Marovich categorizes as extrajudicial murders and war crimes, and the attempted incursion into Venezuela to seize President Maduro, deemed a blatant violation of the UN Charter and international immunity laws. The discussion also touches on the ethical responsibilities of government lawyers who justify these actions, contrasting those who resign with those who enable executive power.
The US government's alleged disregard for international law, as detailed in this analysis, has profound implications for global stability, human rights, and the future of international legal frameworks. Such actions erode the credibility of the United States, alienate allies, and set dangerous precedents that could lead to increased global instability and a breakdown of established legal norms. The ethical challenges faced by government lawyers in upholding the rule of law against political pressure are also critical for maintaining integrity within the legal profession.

Takeaways

  • US military strikes on boats in the Caribbean and Pacific, ostensibly targeting drug cartels, are classified as extrajudicial murders due to the absence of an armed conflict and the targeting of non-combatants.
  • The 'double tap' strike on shipwrecked, incapacitated individuals constitutes a premeditated war crime, as international law requires rescue, not further attack, of those out of the fight.
  • The use of unmarked military planes in attacks is a violation of the laws of war, specifically the crime of perfidy, which increases risk to civilian populations.
  • The attempted incursion into Venezuela to seize President Maduro is a clear violation of the UN Charter's prohibition on the use of force against another state, as well as international head-of-state immunity.
  • The US government's legal justifications for these actions are characterized as 'handwaving' and poorly reasoned, failing to acknowledge binding international treaties and domestic legal limitations.
  • The threat to invade Greenland, a territory of NATO ally Denmark, is seen as a violation of the spirit and purpose of the NATO treaty, alienating key allies.
  • Many lawyers within the Department of Justice and other agencies have resigned rather than endorse actions deemed illegal or unethical, demonstrating a commitment to the rule of law.
  • A concerning 'second socialization pathway' is emerging among some lawyers who prioritize maximizing executive freedom of action over their professional duty to the legal system and rule of law.

Insights

1Illegal Strikes on Boats Deemed 'Extrajudicial Murders'

Professor Milan Marovich asserts that US military strikes on boats in the Caribbean and Pacific, justified by the administration as part of an 'armed conflict' with cartels, are illegal and constitute 'extrajudicial murders.' He argues there is no armed conflict under international law, and the targeted individuals were not combatants, making them illegitimate targets. This includes a 'double tap' strike on shipwrecked individuals, which is a war crime.

The administration provided no real evidence that boats were part of cartels or launching attacks. International law dictates that non-combatants not actively engaged in hostilities are not legitimate targets. Attacking incapacitated individuals is a violation of international law, requiring rescue instead.

2Violation of Laws of War Through Perfidious Attacks

The discussion highlights that using unmarked military planes to carry out attacks is a violation of the laws of war, specifically the crime of perfidy. This practice, where combatants present themselves as non-combatants, is condemned internationally because it increases risk to civilian populations. The US has historically criticized similar tactics by groups like Hamas.

Reports of unmarked military planes carrying out attacks. Perfidious acts are recognized war crimes and breaches of the Geneva Conventions.

3Venezuela Incursion Violates UN Charter and Head of State Immunity

The attempted 'snatching' of Venezuelan President Maduro is a 'blatantly illegal' act under international law. The UN Charter (Article 24) prohibits the use of force against another state except in self-defense, which was not applicable here. Furthermore, heads of state enjoy complete and absolute immunity under international law for both official and unofficial acts, making Maduro an immune target.

US is a party to the UN Charter. Article 24 of the UN Charter. International law grants complete and absolute immunity to heads of state. The US also had an extradition treaty with Venezuela that prohibited the extradition of Venezuelan nationals.

4Erosion of US Credibility and Alienation of Allies

The host and guest argue that these actions, including the threat to invade Greenland (a NATO ally's territory), severely damage US credibility and alienate allies. Such threats violate the spirit and purpose of the NATO treaty, which mandates mutual self-defense, potentially obligating allies to defend against the US. This behavior pushes countries like Canada closer to nations like China.

Threats against NATO allies. NATO treaty's object and purposes. Canadian Prime Minister's speech at Davos. Dwindling foreign tourism numbers to the US.

5Ethical Crisis in the Legal Profession: 'Second Socialization Pathway'

The discussion raises concerns about government lawyers who justify illegal actions. While many lawyers have resigned in protest, a 'second socialization pathway' is identified where some young conservative lawyers believe their job is to maximize the president's freedom of action, even if it means disregarding established legal norms and international law. This perspective views the legal profession as historically dominated by 'leftists' who unduly constrain executive power.

Scores of lawyers resigning from DOJ and other agencies. Examples like Elliot Gazer's memo justifying actions. Department of Homeland Security opinion regarding ICE judicial warrants. Supreme Court's opinion in Trump v. United States.

Bottom Line

The systematic nature of the alleged international law violations by the US administration could meet the threshold for 'crimes against humanity,' particularly concerning the widespread murder of non-combatants.

So What?

This elevates the severity of the alleged actions beyond individual war crimes, suggesting a broader pattern of state-sponsored illegality with potentially far-reaching consequences for accountability.

Impact

International legal bodies and human rights organizations could use this framework to pursue accountability, though the practical challenges of adjudication against a powerful state remain significant.

The 'second socialization pathway' for lawyers, prioritizing executive power maximization, represents a fundamental shift in legal ethics that could permanently alter the role of government attorneys.

So What?

This redefines the lawyer's duty from fidelity to the rule of law and the legal system to an almost unchecked loyalty to the executive, potentially eroding checks and balances.

Impact

Legal ethics education and professional organizations must actively address this ideological shift to reinforce foundational principles of legal practice and prevent further politicization of legal counsel.

Lessons

  • Scrutinize government justifications for military and law enforcement actions abroad, particularly when they involve the use of force or target foreign leaders.
  • Advocate for stronger adherence to international law and treaties, recognizing their importance in maintaining global order and protecting US service members through reciprocity.
  • Support and recognize lawyers who uphold ethical obligations and the rule of law, even when it means sacrificing career progression or challenging political directives.

Quotes

"

"These are essentially in my view and I think in the view of most experts extrajudicial murders."

Milan Marovich
"

"You cannot attack those people. They're not a legitimate target. In fact, you're supposed to rescue them and treat them as POWs."

Milan Marovich
"

"Under international law and the US is a party to the UN charter, you can only use force against another state in cases of self-defense. So right there we know that this is a clear violation of the UN charter."

Milan Marovich
"

"People are fed up with this. You know, people try to spin some of the president's bombast as is tactical or strategic. Well, if if the goal was to alienate all our allies, he's succeeding incredibly and in fact has brought countries like Canada closer to China."

Milan Marovich
"

"There's been a generation of young conservatives who basically think that there is no saying no to the president. That basically the president is the executive branch and it is the job of attorneys to maximize his freedom of action."

Milan Marovich

Q&A

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