"DISGUSTING!" Gaza Flotilla Detainees on Israel 'Abuse' | Norman Finkelstein on 'Nazi' Post
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Summary
Takeaways
- ❖Norman Finkelstein asserts that US decisions regarding wars in Iraq and Iran were primarily driven by US national interests, not solely by Israeli 'wire-pulling,' despite tactical errors.
- ❖Finkelstein compares Hamas's October 7th actions to historical slave revolts, arguing that the atrocities committed by oppressed people in a 'concentration camp' context should not be condemned in isolation.
- ❖Joe Kent, former director of the National Counterterrorism Center, believes Israeli influence significantly swayed US foreign policy towards the Iran war, advocating for US withdrawal and restraint on Israel.
- ❖Gaza flotilla detainees, Katrina Graham and Alex Coulson, provide graphic accounts of physical and sexual abuse by Israeli forces, corroborated by UN and New York Times reports.
- ❖Yisha Flea and Danny Danon vehemently deny allegations of sexual abuse against detainees, labeling them as fraudulent narratives and 'blood libels' designed to discredit Israel, while defending physical actions as legitimate police control.
- ❖The Israeli National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, posted a video celebrating the manhandling of a female detainee, which Piers Morgan and others condemned as clear evidence of abuse, despite denials from pro-Israel guests.
Insights
1US Foreign Policy and Israeli Influence
Norman Finkelstein challenges the narrative that Israel 'tricked' the US into wars in Iraq (2003) and Iran. He argues that key US architects like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld acted based on their own perceived US national interests, seeing post-9/11 crises as opportunities to reshape the Middle East. While Israel and the US shared the goal of regime change in Iran, their only disagreement was on the order of operations (Israel wanted Iran first, US wanted Iraq first). Finkelstein emphasizes that tactical errors by US leaders do not equate to serving a foreign power.
Finkelstein cites Cheney and Rumsfeld's 30 years of government experience and commitment to US interests. He also points out that Trump was 'persuaded by Israelis' that an Iran regime change would be a 'cakewalk,' but Trump's own miscalculation doesn't mean he was serving Israeli interests against US ones.
2Justification for October 7th Actions
Norman Finkelstein refuses to condemn Hamas's October 7th actions, drawing a historical parallel to slave rebellions in the US and Caribbean. He argues that abolitionists did not condemn the violence of slave revolts but rather the system of slavery itself. Finkelstein applies this logic to Gaza, describing it as a 'concentration camp' where inhabitants, born into oppression, were destined to die. He asserts that the revolt by these 'inmates' is a predictable outcome of prolonged dehumanization.
He references Nat Turner's rebellion ('Kill all white people') and the Haitian slave rebellion, noting that abolitionists condemned the conditions of slavery, not the revolts. He cites Israeli and UN officials (Guora Island, Mary Robinson) describing Gaza as a 'concentration camp' or a 'whole civilization being destroyed.'
3Allegations of Abuse Against Flotilla Detainees
Katrina Graham and Alex Coulson, detainees from a Gaza aid flotilla, recount experiences of physical and alleged sexual violence by Israeli forces. Graham describes being 'kidnapped,' 'violently pulled,' 'cable tied' to the point of losing feeling, and sustaining a 'bad kick.' She also mentions 'many reports of sexual violence, of rape' among other flotilla participants. Coulson reiterates being 'tazed, beaten, kicked' and seeing bruises, emphasizing that such actions are consistent with daily Israeli violence against Palestinians.
Personal testimonies of Katrina Graham and Alex Coulson. Graham explicitly states, 'We have had more than a dozen reports of severe sexual assault of rape of those who participated in the flotilla.'
4Denial of Abuse Allegations and Counter-Narratives
Yisha Flea and Danny Danon vehemently deny the allegations of sexual abuse, dismissing them as a 'fraudulent narrative' created to counter reports of Hamas's sexual violence. They argue that physical actions against detainees were legitimate 'police actions' against 'enemy combatants' attempting to break a legal blockade. Danon criticizes the UN for blacklisting Israel without providing specific evidence and for equating Israel with terrorist organizations.
Flea claims detainees showed 'no marks' upon release and points to a video of a girl with a neck brace smiling without it the next day as 'a put on.' Danon states the UN 'never gave me even one incident, one testimony to reply' regarding sexual abuse allegations.
5US Aid and Israeli Regional Power
Joe Kent argues that Israel's regional power is heavily reliant on US military assistance and political 'top cover.' He asserts that without this support, Israel would be unable to conduct offensive operations and would behave differently. Kent criticizes the US for allowing Israeli influence to circumvent normal intelligence processes and policy decisions, leading to US involvement in conflicts like the Iran war.
Kent states, 'If America pulled away the military assistance that we give and just really the political top cover that we give to Israel, they would behave in a much different way.' He also mentions seeing 'firsthand' Israeli influence mechanisms like using donors, influential Israelis, and pro-Israel media.
Lessons
- Critically evaluate claims of foreign influence on national policy by examining the motivations and long-standing interests of domestic actors, rather than solely attributing decisions to external manipulation.
- Seek out diverse historical contexts when assessing current conflicts, particularly those involving long-term occupation or oppression, to understand the roots and potential justifications for resistance movements.
- Demand specific, verifiable evidence and transparency from all parties when allegations of human rights abuses are made, and be wary of blanket denials or counter-accusations that lack substantiation.
Quotes
"You don't trick Dick Cheney. You don't trick Donald Rumsfeld. Each of them was 101% committed to American national interests. They didn't give a hoot. They didn't give a flying fig about Israeli interests."
"If you treat people this way, if you degrade them, you humiliate them, you murder them, that don't be surprised if a Nat Turner revolt happens. And that's exactly what I said about October 7th."
"I can say with confidence that had the Israelis not had the degree of access that they did, we never would have gotten into this war."
"We have had more than a dozen reports of severe sexual assault of rape of those who participated in the flotilla."
"I think that they were humiliated, but they were not abused. I think that the abuse narrative came about after the release of the May 2026 report of the horrific sexual abuse by Hamas. They wanted to counter this and they started creating their fraudulent narrative about being sexually abused."
"I don't think she was abused. And by the way, those detainees when they arrived to Europe after we deported them, they conducted virus at the airports and you should see how the authorities in Spain treated them."
Q&A
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